Art general crit/feedback/help thread
Pretty much what it says on the tin. Know we've got a fair few artists around at various skill levels, so I thought it might be nice if there were somewhere people could go to share helpful stuff and/or ask for help with things and suchlike, particularly for if people are practicing and not confident enough to try posting something to the hub outright yet [or practicing with non-hypno based content]

Not that my own personal approach to drawing lends itself to my actually giving crit, though [and i'm not so conceited as to think I'm all that anyway] but hopefully there'll be a few people suited to doing so who might be willing to lend a hand here and there.

Well in any case, without further ado, lets watch this thread sink like a stone.
Well this thread is going to sink like a-

oh you already went there, my job here is done
This thread better not sink before my arm recovers! D: I can always use feedback to keep improving.
You don't necessarily need to be a good artist to give a criticism on a drawing either, even if you can't draw you can still see if something is wrong.

I wouldn't mind lending a hand to newbies or getting some help myself.
I think going forward, this topic will work better if artists - be they new and shy, established and wise, or wherever in between - post links to their works and ask for critiques about those specific pieces.

I don't think people are going to feel comfortable going out of their way to offer critiques out of the blue to artists who might not be expecting them. Well, not anyone who has any meaningful criticism to give, that is ^^
Zko said:
You don't necessarily need to be a good artist to give a criticism on a drawing either, even if you can't draw you can still see if something is wrong.

I wouldn't mind lending a hand to newbies or getting some help myself.
Hmm, yes and no, tbh. I mean, being able to point out that something kinda' doesn't look right is a start, but I'd expect other artists to be more useful at actually knowing how to do something about that, generally speaking. [but hey if you're looking to get some help you could always put some stuff forward and see if this topic'll actually work or not, right? 8D;;]

Mezzberry said:
I think going forward, this topic will work better if artists - be they new and shy, established and wise, or wherever in between - post links to their works and ask for critiques about those specific pieces.

I don't think people are going to feel comfortable going out of their way to offer critiques out of the blue to artists who might not be expecting them. Well, not anyone who has any meaningful criticism to give, that is ^^
Oh absolutely, I probably didn't make it too clear in the OP but that's essentially what I was thinking
Mezzberry said:
I think going forward, this topic will work better if artists - be they new and shy, established and wise, or wherever in between - post links to their works and ask for critiques about those specific pieces.

I don't think people are going to feel comfortable going out of their way to offer critiques out of the blue to artists who might not be expecting them. Well, not anyone who has any meaningful criticism to give, that is ^^
That was what I was assuming we were going to do. xD
Don't we already have such a thread for general Tips? http://hypnohub.net/forum/show/2317

For more specific Feedback the comments of the picture in question is a better way to give feedback than to put it into a separate thread, where it might get overlooked.

If people are afraid to post they shouldn't be. Just post it and we will give our feedback so that v2 or v3 will be up to quality standards. No one is getting eaten alive just for not having a great first picture made.
HypnoMangaEditor said:
Don't we already have such a thread for general Tips? http://hypnohub.net/forum/show/2317

For more specific Feedback the comments of the picture in question is a better way to give feedback than to put it into a separate thread, where it might get overlooked.

If people are afraid to post they shouldn't be. Just post it and we will give our feedback so that v2 or v3 will be up to quality standards. No one is getting eaten alive just for not having a great first picture made.
Manip is right there in the thread title, I'm talking about images done from scratch.

Having a thread for it also allows for advice on WIPs or taking a look at someone's wider artwork outside of the scope of specifically hypno themed stuff.
Yeah, it seems rather unintuitive to go to a thread titled "manipulation tips and tricks" to get critiques and advice on hand-drawn art.
And thus, the war between Artists and Manippers continues.

But I have to agree, a creative area for artists to get feedback and further improve their skills in a constructive manner other then just a "I like it", "Looks good".
An environment that helps the artist improve and that is not just a place to get compliments sounds like a good idea.

We all need improving in some way
Pastel-Daemon said:
Hmm, yes and no, tbh. I mean, being able to point out that something kinda' doesn't look right is a start, but I'd expect other artists to be more useful at actually knowing how to do something about that, generally speaking. [but hey if you're looking to get some help you could always put some stuff forward and see if this topic'll actually work or not, right? 8D;;]
I do not disagree, but I do encourage people be critical of my art always, even if you aren't an artist. But I do like it when you artsy people are able to point out specifically the flaw with all your redlines and what not.

ANYWAY how about this http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37586/
What could I have done to make this good. Please critically rip me a new asshole.
Zko said:
I do not disagree, but I do encourage people be critical of my art always, even if you aren't an artist. But I do like it when you artsy people are able to point out specifically the flaw with all your redlines and what not.

ANYWAY how about this http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37586/
What could I have done to make this good. Please critically rip me a new asshole.
I have no idea what is going on with that pillow.
Pastel-Daemon said:
Manip is right there in the thread title, I'm talking about images done from scratch.
Yeah, I figured one might say that, but this is also something that needs to be done in the comments, because the art of you guys is so vastly different (as it should be) so that making general feedback would be not helpful at all.

I think doing this on an artist by artist or picture by picture basis will be more helpful for each of you then combining it in one thread.

DHB said:
An environment that helps the artist improve and that is not just a place to get compliments sounds like a good idea.
Noted. No more compliments for Darkhatboy guys, he is sick of them! :P
Btw the girls you draw are too fat - but you can draw arms now! :D

Zko said:
ANYWAY how about this http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37586/
What could I have done to make this good. Please critically rip me a new asshole.
Sweat and drool. Wet/sticky clothes. Stronger contrast (it looks a little bit more like an oil painting than like an anime picture). Hair texture needs to be more complex. Redo the hand (size/anatomy). The best drawn part are the curvy areas (ass, breasts), but everything around it looks like you put a plain piece of cloth above it - ESPECIALLY the clothes like the socks and shorts can be improved a lot. It looks like your sketch before you painted it had mostly her figure in it and you did that well, but rushed the other parts instead of devoting time to them as well.
Zko said:
You don't necessarily need to be a good artist to give a criticism on a drawing either, even if you can't draw you can still see if something is wrong.

I wouldn't mind lending a hand to newbies or getting some help myself.
agree

though artists will be able to give clearer reasons of why the drawings are not so good

non-artist: "the drawing is too dark"
artist : "the drawings seems dim, you can use 'Level correction' layer on CSP to make it brighter and sharpen its colors, as well"

random tips :
look at other people's "art comparison" where they showcase an old picture getting redrawn, there, you can tell clearlier about 'what makes art good' :)

====

also, why don't we do what zko did?

http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37802/black_leather-blonde_hair-erect_nipples-female_onl

any feedback welcome :3
Overall it's a great image. If I had to nitpick, looking how bright her skin is in correlation that the sun is coming from a certain direction, I think her hair is too dark and should overall be a little brighter. Also, the Fishcakes in the Bag are a little bit on the small side.

I also thought her upper leg area was a little bit to bulky, compared to other images. Not by a huge margin, but still recognizable.

There's also still the issue that all the character's faces you draw basically look the same, but I guess that is something hard to overcome and can be called "personal style". It's less recognizeable in the Yami picture, but it's still there.

What I like is that you actually made part of the grass background different (not a plain green field) but then stopped by making the trees just plain brown blocks. A bit more texture here, maybe a flower on the grass, a bee or a butterfly - a cat chasing it maybe (so not always in the same position, but you can see it running through the whole picture) ? Little details bring an image to life.
HypnoMangaEditor said:
Overall it's a great image. If I had to nitpick, looking how bright her skin is in correlation that the sun is coming from a certain direction, I think her hair is too dark and should overall be a little brighter. Also, the Fishcakes in the Bag are a little bit on the small side.

I also thought her upper leg area was a little bit to bulky, compared to other images. Not by a huge margin, but still recognizable.

There's also still the issue that all the character's faces you draw basically look the same, but I guess that is something hard to overcome and can be called "personal style". It's less recognizeable in the Yami picture, but it's still there.

What I like is that you actually made part of the grass background different (not a plain green field) but then stopped by making the trees just plain brown blocks. A bit more texture here, maybe a flower on the grass, a bee or a butterfly - a cat chasing it maybe (so not always in the same position, but you can see it running through the whole picture) ? Little details bring an image to life.
thanks for the feedback!
about sameface syndrome, yeah, i also know about that, not that i can't draw another face, but rather i find the same kind of face 'pretty', i hope to cure it as i progress further :)

about mini details and such, sadly, I have no time for that, as its a monthly based sketches and i have to do 3 (well only the winner with highest vote will be finished/most clean, while otehrs will still look like sketch), i have to do the manga as well, so.... .-.
vahn_yourdoom said:
[...] sadly, I have no time for that [...]
Then why are you even asking for feedback if you do not have time to even try implementing it? You are experienced enough to not make little mistakes that can be fixed easily - the rest will take dedication and of course time. You are already making plenty of images in really good quality - there's no reason to just do 2 of them instead of three but do them in a higher quality and after a while you will be fast enough to do 3 again, but in that higher quality. To get faster and better you have to take a step back and go for higher quality first with a slower speed, then pick up the speed again with time - at least that is what shirobako tried telling us, and it makes sense :)

vahn_yourdoom said:
about sameface syndrome, yeah, i also know about that, not that i can't draw another face, but rather i find the same kind of face 'pretty', i hope to cure it as i progress further :)
*shrug*
Well like I said, I take it as a Vahn-alized version of Yami. Your style is very recognizable - I see your pictures on pixiv all the time for example. Just be careful with characters where it doesn't really match. Charlotte for example (your avatar picture) doesn't work at all for me like that. I think more cheerful characters will work better for you than gloomy ones.

Btw. the guy that has been posting hypnohub stuff on exhentai has already posted your yami series as well. I am still not sure if he shouldn't ask beforehand, then again, there's little that can be done admin-wise.
Zko said:

ANYWAY how about this http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37586/
What could I have done to make this good. Please critically rip me a new asshole.
...I'd actually be curious to see your process, looking at this.

The first thing that comes to mind to me is the shadows look like they're black or some shade of gray. It's generally advised to use black as little as possible. Using a cool color like blue instead could achieve a more vibrant result, I think.

Some things'll depend what direction you wanna go with your art though. If you wanna go more realistic, some aspects of Crystal's anatomy are a little jarring [particularly how thin her arms/tiny her hands are relative to the rest of her.] It's more coloring specific, but the shading on her neck seems rather sharp, and probably wasn't necessary, particularly considering the minimal shading on her face which is probably a more important area. ^^;
HypnoMangaEditor said:
Then why are you even asking for feedback if you do not have time to even try implementing it? You are experienced enough to not make little mistakes that can be fixed easily - the rest will take dedication and of course time. You are already making plenty of images in really good quality - there's no reason to just do 2 of them instead of three but do them in a higher quality and after a while you will be fast enough to do 3 again, but in that higher quality. To get faster and better you have to take a step back and go for higher quality first with a slower speed, then pick up the speed again with time - at least that is what shirobako tried telling us, and it makes sense :)

*shrug*
Well like I said, I take it as a Vahn-alized version of Yami. Your style is very recognizable - I see your pictures on pixiv all the time for example. Just be careful with characters where it doesn't really match. Charlotte for example (your avatar picture) doesn't work at all for me like that. I think more cheerful characters will work better for you than gloomy ones.

Btw. the guy that has been posting hypnohub stuff on exhentai has already posted your yami series as well. I am still not sure if he shouldn't ask beforehand, then again, there's little that can be done admin-wise.
well, getting feedback is more about getting others brutal impression on your drawings for others.

the quantity is my patreon reward, there can't be any sudden change to that :3
I'm planing to change my work from 2 pages/week into 2 pages/10 days so that i'll have enough time to draw other things. I already tell my patrons about this.

and about that, well, lol, I shall just inform other guys there if it's my art and to link the drawings to my pixiv and also hypnohub. i have no problem for as long it's not my patrons-only/private drawings that's being shared :)
Pl-Please be gentle with me

Jk any criticism can help me become better as an artist and please others :)

Though, I predict people will tell me to get a scanner or tablet, which I cannot do atm

Anything critical about anatomy is welcome considering I don't know much about it (never took any classes on it) and maybe even certain methods of hypnosis or fetishes that people would like to see (This pertains to the sequel of my series)
oh this thread is actually turning out pretty well, greato

sadly i don't have anything valuable to add so you people have fun i guess
Myuk said:
Pl-Please be gentle with me

Jk any criticism can help me become better as an artist and please others :)

Though, I predict people will tell me to get a scanner or tablet, which I cannot do atm

Anything critical about anatomy is welcome considering I don't much about it (never took any classes on it) and maybe even certain methods of hypnosis or fetishes that people would like to see (This pertains to the sequel of my series)
Well, so far I have only seen sketches from you. I am still waiting for a colored and shaded art where you put everything into. Your sketches aren't bad, though.
HypnoMangaEditor said:
Well, so far I have only seen sketches from you. I am still waiting for a colored and shaded art where you put everything into. Your sketches aren't bad, though.
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback. I do hope to become better at coloring. So far, my only source for colored pics is an app which is difficult for me to use while other users of this app seem to use it professionally. I admit I definitely need to practice shading and coloring, which kept me from making any because of lack of confidence and skill. Maybe after I finish season 1 of my series, it'll give me time to learn some new things.
Myuk said:
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback. I do hope to become better at coloring. So far, my only source for colored pics is an app which is difficult for me to use while other users of this app seem to use it professionally. I admit I definitely need to practice shading and coloring, which kept me from making any because of lack of confidence and skill. Maybe after I finish season 1 of my series, it'll give me time to learn some new things.
I think you shouldn't be, because this is actually the best place to learn. Who else are you gonna ask and show your work too? You can always delete your work and upload a v2, but there are a lot of artists that show visible improvements over the past years and its fun to see them grow.

So, after looking at your art a little more I noticed a couple of things.

- you mostly draw females
- some of your drawn lines are pretty thick

This leads me to a couple of things:

As you are drawing with a pencil and scanning the pages, you have several options here:

1. Stay that way and keep using Pencils. I am not sure you do, but I think you should use more different Pencils with your art. Finer Pencils may actually improve on your art but will also provide a challenge, because the error margin is lower.

2. Keep on Paper but start inking. This will give more contrast to your pictures. As with Pencils, try to experiment with different thickness while inking.

3. Go digital and get a a drawing tablet. This is obviously the more expensive version, but 15 years back when I sold them, WACOM was pretty good and not too expensive. You might want to ask other artists about this though, because they have more experience with this than me. Obviously this opens a lot areas with digital editing and coloring as well.

As for you drawing mostly females, try to draw other things as well, meaning males, animals, backgrounds. Not only will this diversify and enrich your pictures, you will also get more training doing so.
EdgeOfTheMoon said:
Ok I'll bite. Always good to get some feedback

Here's my most recent colored work http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37016/blonde_hair-blush-bravely_default-bravely_second-c

And here's my most recent B&W piece http://hypnohub.net/post/show/36778/ahoge-black_hair-blonde_hair-comic-crystal-curly_h
These have more a comic/cartoon look to them than a manga-style, so I am not sure if this is intended or if you are still training. I'd say just drawing more to find your own style will show visible improvements over time.

Are you using a tablet for this? Because if you do, you might actually go the opposite way and try more sketching with a pencil for a while to get more practice and feel for general anatomy, shadows etc, then go back to a tablet.

BTW Guys/Gals - this is all coming from a person that can not draw at all - I am just giving my impressions and ideas, so take them with a grain of salt. I am not qualified to give you any kind of professional advise on this, just my personal opinion.
HypnoMangaEditor said:
Noted. No more compliments for Darkhatboy guys, he is sick of them! :P
Btw the girls you draw are too fat - but you can draw arms now! :D
Ouch, harsh. But a good burn. And "too fat"? I see it as more personality based body type, not everyone is slim and fit, having a preference on girls having a few extra curves is a good one I see it. And girls with arms are good as well.

Zko said:
ANYWAY how about this http://hypnohub.net/post/show/37586/
What could I have done to make this good. Please critically rip me a new asshole.
Zko, first thing I thought when I looked at it was "He just really wanted to get the pose out right, then the background just came last". Which ofcourse, we've all done before, had that pose that needs to get out without considering the background till it's needed.
But in this case, the background takes away from the main point of interest. It kind of just conflicts with the clean sharpness of the girl.
DHB said:
Ouch, harsh. But a good burn. And "too fat"? I see it as more personality based body type, not everyone is slim and fit, having a preference on girls having a few extra curves is a good one I see it. And girls with arms are good as well.
Girls without arms are pretty popular too, depending on where you look. :3c

['Too fat' tho'....I can't even...]
DHB said:
Ouch, harsh. But a good burn. And "too fat"? I see it as more personality based body type, not everyone is slim and fit, having a preference on girls having a few extra curves is a good one I see it. And girls with arms are good as well.
It was mostly meant as a joke (therefore the smiley), but generally, most of your girls have kind of unusually huge asses and bloated upper leg areas. It's probably a personal preference of yours, but it is kind of unusual anatomy comparing it to other girls of the board (then again, your whole style is very different and makes you unique). I don't dislike girls that have a bit of meat, but them being unusually bloated is kind of a weird thing.
Myuk said:
Pl-Please be gentle with me

Jk any criticism can help me become better as an artist and please others :)

Though, I predict people will tell me to get a scanner or tablet, which I cannot do atm

Anything critical about anatomy is welcome considering I don't know much about it (never took any classes on it) and maybe even certain methods of hypnosis or fetishes that people would like to see (This pertains to the sequel of my series)
Honestly the fact you're doing a comic is a really good source of progression in of itself, since it'll naturally require you to do more poses and such that people'd usually not bother with [and ideally varying angles, backgrounds etc too]

If we take your current icon image as an example though, in anatomy terms, a few things do jump out. Particularly ana's arms. The upper arms look quite short in comparison to the forearms, and overall compared to the width of the torso, look a bit too much on the thin side. [I mean, I know it's anime and all but regardless...]

Generally drawing an object that's in front of you is better than drawing from a photograph. I have a suspicion you wont be able to swing attending anything like an organised life drawing class but if you can get someone to pose for you [...i dont mean naked] and do quick studies you might get a better grasp of relative proportions that way.

And here are a couple of fun proportion quick tricks that're good for everyone.
Hand <-> Face
link

Foot <--> Forearm
link