Yuu-chan I believe people are arguing with you over the fact while some can simply be RP, of course there are some, there are several if not plenty chat logs that are true. Nevermind the actual video or in person hypnosis I presume is going on around this site.

Just pointing that out, don't involve me in this because I'm not good at arguing, leave it to you crazies.
Yuu-chan said:
Hey Mezz! I just wrote a number on a piece of paper. Can you tell me what number I wrote?
Ummm....

*concentrates all hypnotic powers on Yuu-Chan's mind*

It's the letter 'F.'

*Puts hands behind head and leans back in chair smugly*

Yuu-chan said:
Well, apparently even considering the possibility that a person you hypnotized in a chatroom might not actually be hypnotized is just completely outrageous and unthinkable, and we're all supposed to be able to read the minds of the people we're exchanging messages with hundreds or thousands of miles away. "This person I'm talking to could be faking, or even lying to me? Ha, next you you'll be telling me the world isn't round, LOL!"

I'm not gonna bother trying to convince anyone with regard to the legitimacy of hypnosis anymore, since I've seen that that's just gonna go nowhere. But for Christ's sake, calling someone closed-minded for thinking that someone you talk to on the Internet might not be who, or what, or where, or doing what they tell you they are? I'm not saying that they are or are not. But you have to get it through your head that you can't say, without a single doubt, that they are. That's not being closed-minded, that's called being logical.

Here, let me use a non-hypnosis example: HypnoHub has a user who goes by the name Mezzberry. The authorship of some of the works on HypnoHub is attributed to an individual by the name of Mezzberry. Now, are those two Mezzberries the same person? I don't know. Mezzberry could be creating the work he/she uploads, but it's possible that those works are created by another individual, and then Mezzberry uploads those works and credits himself/herself as the author. Am I saying that this is true? No, and in fact I believe that Mezzberry uploads his/her own work. The key word there is believe. I don't know that it's his/her own work. But you can believe something is true, even if it's not true. And just because you believe you have hypnotized someone or have been hypnotized, that doesn't necessarily make it fact.
Okay, this is getting a little out of control and I'm remiss to keep going on my end, but I always consider the possibility that even my closest and most loyal subs are faking. Part of this is keeping an open mind to any possibility, however remote. Part of it, as you said, is logical skepticism. But mostly it's just the result of being a neurotic mess with zero inborn self-confidence to the point I'm still somewhat amazed I even learned something as confidence-intensive as hypnosis in the first place. And even mentioning this is unfair to my subs, since they've done nothing but earn my trust on this front. But just because I learned hypnosis, believed in it enough to try it, and have seen enough of its efficacy in my own experience to continue to believe it doesn't mean my entire sense of skepticism just went out the window.

First the stance was 'hypnosis is fake.' Then it became 'hypnosis is real in therapy but not anywhere else.' Now it's...what, exactly? 'I can't lose ground now so I'll insinuate that everyone who advocates it is a true believer who thinks no one ever fakes?' I called Morgoth close-minded because statements like 'there's no way for you to prove your point to me' are the very definition of close-mindedness. Several posters who are far more knowledgable and experienced than me have already pointed out several times over that most of the 'hypnosis' that goes on in the community is indeed no more than roleplaying, and I'm inclined to agree.

But just as the proponents of hypnosis should not (and don't actually) try to sweep the amount of faking under the rug, so too should the amount of faking not overshadow the sessions that actually are real. I personally haven't encountered a faker in a while because, when I decided to learn hypnosis, I also decided to devote my time to core group of potential subs who were really serious about it, and only really bring it up to people who I thought might have true interest in it beyond roleplaying...or just any guy-pretending-to-be-a-girl who walked by, because I'm a horny bastard ^^

And I...have no response to your third paragraph, other than having it finally sink in that I probably should have given my eponymous OC a different name to avoid confusion >_>
It kind of feels like arguing against fundamentalism. This is my reason for claiming the whole argument cannot possibly lead anywhere.

Mezzberry said:
Even assuming that you entered this argument standing on equal footing with the proponents of real hypnosis, the burden of proof / disproof rested at least equally on your own shoulders.
"You have to prove that there is no God!"

Mezzberry said:
You can't complain that the only proof you've been given is 'I've tried it and it works for me'
"You cannot deny God's existence, if people claim to have seen him."

Mezzberry said:
Yeah, that (not accepting any claims on the internet) is not close-minded at all...>_>
"If claims about God's existence cannot convince you, you do not seem to accept any proof."

Welp, not wanting to get into any religious arguments (could have used the existence of Bigfoot as analogy as well).
In short: I do not believe you.

However, I have no way of confirming anything. What do I know? Maybe your claims about
Text-Hypnosis are true? Maybe I will burn in Hell for blasphemy after my death?

There is no way to be certain but you have to accept me not believing in it as I accept you believing in it.
Morgoth said:
It kind of feels like arguing against fundamentalism. This is my reason for claiming the whole argument cannot possibly lead anywhere.

"You have to prove that there is no God!"

"You cannot deny God's existence, if people claim to have seen him."

"If claims about God's existence cannot convince you, you do not seem to accept any proof."

Welp, not wanting to get into any religious arguments (could have used the existence of Bigfoot as analogy as well).
In short: I do not believe you.

However, I have no way of confirming anything. What do I know? Maybe your claims about
Text-Hypnosis are true? Maybe I will burn in Hell for blasphemy after my death?

There is no way to be certain but you have to accept me not believing in it as I accept you believing in it.
Okay...since I made a global warming analogy earlier, I can't in good faith automatically roll my eyes at this one. But given that your stance has been 'hypnosis in therapy is real, anything else is fake,' in order for your equivalency to be anything other than false, you would have to amend it to say 'I believe God is real when you're in church, but you can't convince me that he exists when you're at home praying before a meal.' Which of course would make just as much sense as your original stance.
Mezzberry said:
But given that your stance has been 'hypnosis in therapy is real, anything else is fake,'
Just to be clear: My stance is that the fetish-based "Hypnosis" people claim to experience over text done by anyone from the internet is nothing more than Roleplay.

I never claimed that Hypnosis itself cannot exist outside of therpeutic setting (stage Hypnosis for example), I was referring to those kind of chats:

"You are getting very sleepy. "
"You are my slave now."
"Yes master."

I am pretty confident to say that it is just roleplay we are dealing with. Wich is FINE in my opinion, just nothing one should take too serious.
I think whats causing most of the issues, is the 'Either this or that" stance that most people take. So let me try something in the middle as an experiment.

Is hypnosis over text and in chat possible: Yes.

are all logs that show a person hypnotized in chat real: Of course not.

Are all logs that show a person hypnotized in chat fake: Of course not.

Both stances are right, not all chat logs are real but some are, with experience you can gage which ones are more likely to be true but you can never be sure with pure text. But you can do tests and other things to help you determine if they are or are not actually hypnotized.
to the people who think hypnosis is fake, how about you let one of us put you under, then we'll talk
Mezzberry said:
I can't lose ground now so I'll insinuate that everyone who advocates it is a true believer who thinks no one ever fakes?
I FUCKING said I'm not bothering with arguing about hypnosis. My last post was just to point out the flaw in something ignorant you said, which if you don't remember:

Morgoth said:
Looking at those cliché-chatlogs and coming to the logical conclusion that those cannot possibly be real but rather are just kinky Roleplay is definitively not close-minded. It is rational.
Morgoth said:
Dedicated Roleplayers can claim and act out everything. Even a Video where someone seemingly gets "hypnotized" over chat would not prove a thing. Any discussion about proof is pointless.
Mezzberry said:
Yeah, that's not close-minded at all...>_>
What he said wasn't "close-minded" it's logical thinking.

Mezzberry said:
But given that your stance has been 'hypnosis in therapy is real, anything else is fake,'
Okay, I know I'm talking to a brick fucking wall at this point. Since you guys either ignore or fail to understand any word I post, I will repeat what I said earlier:

Yuu-chan said:
Professional medical hypnosis works in the sense that it helps get people to make decisions about things with regard to anxiety/depression/whatever. It's basically the same as hearing a motivational speech or having a conversation with a counselor or such. It doesn't do anything that the person can't or won't already do on their own.
Notice that bold part. I didn't claim that "Hypnosis is real in a medical setting, but not anywhere else." People go to hypnotherapy to cure whatever-the-fuck, whether it's their horrible arachnophobia, drug addiction, or whatever. It manages to accomplish what it sets out to do. But it's no less subjective than hypnosis in any other setting - it's all dependent on what the subject can/will make of it. I mentioned motivational speeches - what were those ones called, TED Talks or whatthefuck? - they do the same thing. Just because you listen to one or six, your life isn't gonna suddenly change. It ultimately depends on you and what you want to/can do.

I brought up therapeutic hypnosis because of the "hurr-durr hypnosis has science to back it up why do you think people use it in therapy???" comments. Something like hypnosis can't have basis in science. You can't call something science when it's different for literally every person ever. It's too subjective to actually be able to "prove" anything.

I'm straight-up done trying to say anymore in this thread. If past posts are any indication, what I typed here is either going to be ignored or completely misinterpreted, but whatever. I really don't care what anyone thinks, but the OP asked a question and I just wanted people to stop telling him things that aren't necessarily true.
crazyman said:
to the people who think hypnosis is fake, how about you let one of us put you under, then we'll talk
I made it clear in an earlier post that hypnosis straight-up doesn't work for me :P
Believe me, I have tried many times.
Yuu-chan said:
It manages to accomplish what it sets out to do. But it's no less subjective than hypnosis in any other setting - it's all dependent on what the subject can/will make of it.
This is accurate, hypnosis can't make you do anything you dont' want to do.

I brought up therapeutic hypnosis because of the "hurr-durr hypnosis has science to back it up why do you think people use it in therapy???" comments. Something like hypnosis can't have basis in science. You can't call something science when it's different for literally every person ever. It's too subjective to actually be able to "prove" anything.
This is both accurate and inaccurate. Yes hypnosis is different for everyone, the experience. the way the brain reacts however is not. And can be scientifically tested and measured using methods that range from very cheap and easy, to very expensive and complicated. Hypnotists wouldn't be allowed in the American Medical Associate if we didn't have something scientific to back up our claims.
Yuu-chan said:
I made it clear in an earlier post that hypnosis straight-up doesn't work for me :P
Believe me, I have tried many times.
May I politely ask about your experience? what it was that you felt / experienced vs what you expected to experience that leads you to that conclusion?
I've tried several times to enter a trance via MP3 files and videos on YouTube, (like this guy). and it hasn't worked out for me. I've gotten relaxed, even fell asleep once, but I'm not sure I even know what a trance feels like. Maybe it would work better if it were done live, but I'm shy as fuck. So right now I just don't know.
Dunno,most of method ain't working(to my relief). Or perhaps my fear of getting hypnotized preventing it.
theratofapocalypse said:
Dunno,most of method ain't working(to my relief). Or perhaps my fear of getting hypnotized preventing it.
Yes, that's exactly why it's not working. Hypnosis isn't magic and letting someone hypnotize you isn't actually giving them absolute power over you. Hypnosis is a kind of focusing technique, not actual mind control. Fearing to focus on what they say is why you're not doing it.

Nadie said:
I've tried several times to enter a trance via MP3 files and videos on YouTube, (like this guy). and it hasn't worked out for me. I've gotten relaxed, even fell asleep once, but I'm not sure I even know what a trance feels like. Maybe it would work better if it were done live, but I'm shy as fuck. So right now I just don't know.
Hypnosis isn't entirely passive. You as the listener have to actively focus on the words or actions being given to you to the extent that your conscious mind isn't really involved. You shouldn't be falling asleep literally.

Let me put it this way - did you play red light green light as a kid? In that game someone says green light and you run from one point to another, and stop when they say red light. If you move when they say red light, you fail. It trains you to listen to the words being spoken until you're ready to burst into action the second you hear green light and you'll never move on red light no matter what tricks are played on you. You're focused, attentive, and aware. You know those words fully and before you think about it you act based on them. When you're in the zone you will respond perfectly to the words of someone else.

Hypnosis requires relaxation but also focus. Your attention and will are sent in a narrow direction and you are completely focused on it. If they say relax, you relax. If they say don't think, you don't think. If they say to focus on them, you focus on them. It's voluntary, completely and totally. Which is why people have such a hard time understanding that it isn't magic, because you seem like you've given someone else total control over you. It's also more than pretend, because you are actively not bothering to think, but rather focus on someone else's intent and will. You can do all of this without understanding how it works, and some people do. Others don't. Many don't have the ability to focus, others simply can't trust someone enough to play mental red light green light with them. An induction is essentially a process where you relax and focus someone enough that they're responsive to words and instruction.

Some of you might think this basically makes it roleplay. It isn't - there's a very different state of mind that you can in fact record on MRI's. There's a region of the brain that, when stimulated with a brain implant, basically turns off "you". Your conscious mind and perception of time. If all of your conscious mind is focused on is some outside words - not interpreting them, just 'naturally' going with them, then it's not going to be doing it's normal thing. We also know different parts of the brain are active or non-active depending on what you're thinking or doing. So yes - for some people who are focused enough, it's possible to lose track of time and forget an entire experience you went with. But that's active and takes real effort towards a total, reactive focus on someone's words. You relax everything step-by-step so this focus can be total and you can forget about everything else.

If you think that's impossible just remember the last time you zoned out watching a fireplace or on the road, losing stretch of a span of time thinking about nothing at all. You might drive through traffic for miles on automatic before snapping back to awareness, forgetting that entire span of time. That proves your conscious mind can turn off sometimes while you're awake. If you think you can't focus that well, remember any time you've been "in the zone" in any game or in any activity. If you remember it well you'll recall that while in the zone you might think, but it's short and to the point. Mostly you're reacting, moving on pure practiced muscle memory flawlessly. You're precise and have good judgement but you're not really thinking about those judgments.

Hypnosis is all about relaxing, forgetting everything and focusing with everything you've got, very actively, on someone else's words to the point where you're "in the zone" on what they say. It's no more complex than playing red light, green light, but does take practice to do well.

To be frank though a lot of subs and tists both don't really know why it works and that's why it fails for people. Some go in expecting to be totally passive and unfocused and just be magically controlled. Some expect to just relax someone on a rote script and then have them obey their every word like magic. Somehow people think it's not a two-person activity.

Hypnosis is not magic. I say this again and again but that is why it fails for people - they tend to think it is. It's an active participatory activity and in some ways, a skill you develop. The better you are at focus the better you'll be at hypnosis. Both getting hypnotized and doing it to others.

Hypnotizing someone is all about being someone that's worth that focus. Someone that can relax their subject until they forget their arms and legs and head exists so they're not distracted by small daily BS and little muscle aches. Someone that can guide them to focus hard enough that they are completely honed in on the words they speak. You have to speak clearly and give instructions people can obey without a lot of thought, meaning you have to be precise with your words. But a masterful hypnotist with an unwilling subject won't go any distance at all. A novice hypnotist with a willing subject would go much further.

A final thing to consider is that meditation is the exact same thing but you're focusing on nothing and being empty rather than someone else's words. You're consciously inducing that fireplace stare zoneout state. If you want to learn how to be hypnotized but don't trust anyone, try meditation. Getting good at one will make you good at the other.

If you want erotic hypnosis then it's down to you to learn how to be willing to focus on obeying someone else's words. If you don't trust your 'tist, learn how to find someone you do trust or meditate. The best experiences will always take work from both parties.
cypress_z said:
Yes, that's exactly why it's not working. Hypnosis isn't magic and letting someone hypnotize you isn't actually giving them absolute power over you. Hypnosis is a kind of focusing technique, not actual mind control. Fearing to focus on what they say is why you're not doing it.

Hypnosis isn't entirely passive. You as the listener have to actively focus on the words or actions being given to you to the extent that your conscious mind isn't really involved. You shouldn't be falling asleep literally.

Let me put it this way - did you play red light green light as a kid? In that game someone says green light and you run from one point to another, and stop when they say red light. If you move when they say red light, you fail. It trains you to listen to the words being spoken until you're ready to burst into action the second you hear green light and you'll never move on red light no matter what tricks are played on you. You're focused, attentive, and aware. You know those words fully and before you think about it you act based on them. When you're in the zone you will respond perfectly to the words of someone else.

Hypnosis requires relaxation but also focus. Your attention and will are sent in a narrow direction and you are completely focused on it. If they say relax, you relax. If they say don't think, you don't think. If they say to focus on them, you focus on them. It's voluntary, completely and totally. Which is why people have such a hard time understanding that it isn't magic, because you seem like you've given someone else total control over you. It's also more than pretend, because you are actively not bothering to think, but rather focus on someone else's intent and will. You can do all of this without understanding how it works, and some people do. Others don't. Many don't have the ability to focus, others simply can't trust someone enough to play mental red light green light with them. An induction is essentially a process where you relax and focus someone enough that they're responsive to words and instruction.

Some of you might think this basically makes it roleplay. It isn't - there's a very different state of mind that you can in fact record on MRI's. There's a region of the brain that, when stimulated with a brain implant, basically turns off "you". Your conscious mind and perception of time. If all of your conscious mind is focused on is some outside words - not interpreting them, just 'naturally' going with them, then it's not going to be doing it's normal thing. We also know different parts of the brain are active or non-active depending on what you're thinking or doing. So yes - for some people who are focused enough, it's possible to lose track of time and forget an entire experience you went with. But that's active and takes real effort towards a total, reactive focus on someone's words. You relax everything step-by-step so this focus can be total and you can forget about everything else.

If you think that's impossible just remember the last time you zoned out watching a fireplace or on the road, losing stretch of a span of time thinking about nothing at all. You might drive through traffic for miles on automatic before snapping back to awareness, forgetting that entire span of time. That proves your conscious mind can turn off sometimes while you're awake. If you think you can't focus that well, remember any time you've been "in the zone" in any game or in any activity. If you remember it well you'll recall that while in the zone you might think, but it's short and to the point. Mostly you're reacting, moving on pure practiced muscle memory flawlessly. You're precise and have good judgement but you're not really thinking about those judgments.

Hypnosis is all about relaxing, forgetting everything and focusing with everything you've got, very actively, on someone else's words to the point where you're "in the zone" on what they say. It's no more complex than playing red light, green light, but does take practice to do well.

To be frank though a lot of subs and tists both don't really know why it works and that's why it fails for people. Some go in expecting to be totally passive and unfocused and just be magically controlled. Some expect to just relax someone on a rote script and then have them obey their every word like magic. Somehow people think it's not a two-person activity.

Hypnosis is not magic. I say this again and again but that is why it fails for people - they tend to think it is. It's an active participatory activity and in some ways, a skill you develop. The better you are at focus the better you'll be at hypnosis. Both getting hypnotized and doing it to others.

Hypnotizing someone is all about being someone that's worth that focus. Someone that can relax their subject until they forget their arms and legs and head exists so they're not distracted by small daily BS and little muscle aches. Someone that can guide them to focus hard enough that they are completely honed in on the words they speak. You have to speak clearly and give instructions people can obey without a lot of thought, meaning you have to be precise with your words. But a masterful hypnotist with an unwilling subject won't go any distance at all. A novice hypnotist with a willing subject would go much further.

A final thing to consider is that meditation is the exact same thing but you're focusing on nothing and being empty rather than someone else's words. You're consciously inducing that fireplace stare zoneout state. If you want to learn how to be hypnotized but don't trust anyone, try meditation. Getting good at one will make you good at the other.

If you want erotic hypnosis then it's down to you to learn how to be willing to focus on obeying someone else's words. If you don't trust your 'tist, learn how to find someone you do trust or meditate. The best experiences will always take work from both parties.
I cannot second this enough.
cypress_z said:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooords!
Are there any good resources I could use to learn to meditate? Maybe if I get that down the files will work out. I think my problem is not being able to empty my mind and focus completely on the voice.
Nadie said:
Are there any good resources I could use to learn to meditate? Maybe if I get that down the files will work out. I think my problem is not being able to empty my mind and focus completely on the voice.
I learned years ago from reading books by buddhists and talking with them in person. I never converted and you don't have to either but they're the ones that've used it the most and are the best at it. There are all kinds of books online and youtube tutorials and such to help you from them. If you don't want the religion, don't worry about the religion. Meditation is just a focusing technique - learn what you want to and then move on.

I found the toughest thing was having "sticky thoughts", so to speak. You try to be empty but random thoughts still happen. Although the end-goal is being mentally empty you can focus on specific thoughts or things to train yourself. I started to imagine myself in a big pool of water floating in the middle, with random thoughts being like bubbles coming up from below. They happen but you just let them happen - you don't hold on to them, you just let them float past you to the surface. You can't control the little thoughts that come up, but you can control whether you focus on them. Some find it useful to say words like "ohm", which literally just means "empty", and I've noticed that when some guys do it it reminds me a bit of a cat purring. That is in the sense that your body tends to hum like a tuning fork at the right, deep tone of voice. No doubt that's comforting for a lot of people. But it's also more distraction than it's worth to me, so I prefer quiet and focusing just on my breathing until I'm ready to not focus on anything at all. Breathing techniques are very useful in general, or were for me.

My advice is to go out, read a source or two and try it, then read more and try it again, and again, a little different each time until you find the technique that works best for you. There's no single right answer and when you do find one that works it'll still take time and practice. Do your best and don't beat yourself up if you can't do it right away.
cypress_z said:
(Advice more helpful than I ever expected: Part 2.)
Thanks for all your input and advice! I'll check out a few websites, maybe read some books or watch some videos, and see if that helps at all.
Nadie said:
Thanks for all your input and advice! I'll check out a few websites, maybe read some books or watch some videos, and see if that helps at all.
I hope it ends up working out for you and you have a ton of fun!
cypress_z said:
I hope it ends up working out for you and you have a ton of fun!
By the way, I forgive you for that obscene description of spoiler
Cypress posts are always quite informatives.

@Cypress

Quick question,What should be a perfect room to go into trance?
Is better a chair or a bed? How to avoid unexpected sounds? Is it better to have the lights off?
IDPet said:
Cypress posts are always quite informatives.

@Cypress

Quick question,What should be a perfect room to go into trance?
Is better a chair or a bed? How to avoid unexpected sounds? Is it better to have the lights off?
That's all up to you. It's about accomplishing mental focus so whatever makes you most comfortable and least aware of your body. Wear earplugs if you have to. Just make sure you're cozy.
cypress_z said:
Too long,didn't quote informative text
Can i give u upvote or like?
I glad that i couldn't get hypnotized,got called by stage hypnotist,he couldn't do it for like 10 min and i got called out xD
I think he shouldnt called somebody that got hypnotizedphobia.
The first forum post I made on this site was a link to this article from the BBC that talks about scientists testing the hypnotic state. It's a good read and pretty much answers the question, you should check it out: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140702-why-i-asked-to-be-possessed

To quote one part of it:
"Along the way, researchers have edged closer to understanding what causes the hypnotic state in the first place. It seems that hypnotic induction turns something like a dimmer switch in the brain’s frontal lobes. These regions are thought to generate “higher-order thoughts” – reflective awareness of your own wants and needs and motives. Take that away, it seems, and you begin to do and feel things without realising why."