This topic is locked.

Jack/Skye’s post are gone!
All pictures involving this person are gone! Any idea what happened?
Trippy: they requested to be on the DNP (do not post) list and had all their pictures removed
111 said:
Trippy: they requested to be on the DNP (do not post) list and had all their pictures removed
That is correct.
Argonis said:
That is correct.
Discord drama?
bugmenot said:
Discord drama?
Tag drama.

I'll just state it here.

There was dispute with a user and the mod team over the Trap tag being potentially offensive.

We do not feel that it is, as it the way it is used on this site is in reference to a specific form of fetish art.
Imasuky said:
Tag drama.

I'll just state it here.

There was dispute with a user and the mod team over the Trap tag being potentially offensive.

We do not feel that it is, as it the way it is used on this site is in reference to a specific form of fetish art.
Thank you for being transparent, or at least somewhat transparent. Aren't DNPs supposed to be for copyright and exclusivity?
bugmenot said:
Thank you for being transparent, or at least somewhat transparent. Aren't DNPs supposed to be for copyright and exclusivity?
An artist can request to be put there on purpose, regardless of whether their work is copyrighted or not
bugmenot said:
Thank you for being transparent, or at least somewhat transparent. Aren't DNPs supposed to be for copyright and exclusivity?
I feel it's best to be honest on matters.

And DNP is for any artist who doesn't want their art on the site as a matter of respect.

We might disagree on the tag issue but we will respect Skye's wish on this matter.
Why not just change the tag?
Black--Wave said:
Why not just change the tag?
One person not liking it doesn't make it a bad tag. It fuckin' sucks they would go DNP over it, though.
It also sucks since commissioned pieces got deleted alongside the freebies.
Why is keeping the name of a potentially offensive tag unchanged worth losing a great artist's entire body of work?
Black--Wave said:
Why is keeping the name of a potentially offensive tag unchanged worth losing a great artist's entire body of work?
Triple: because one person doesn't get to decide if a tag shouldn't exist because they find it offensive
Black--Wave said:
Why is keeping the name of a potentially offensive tag unchanged worth losing a great artist's entire body of work?
If they seem to be the only one taking issue, then it's their problem, not everyone else's.
If they want to take their art down over it, that's also their choice and we have to live with it.
I think that if one person finds the tag so hurtful that they decide they can't be a part of the site anymore, it's probably a safe bet that they're not the only ones who have an issue with it. And it's not hard to see why, yes? The implication of that title is that people with a certain look are inherently deceitful and out to get you. I don't think changing the name of the tag to... I don't know, "effeminate_male" or something would be much of a problem for everyone else. It just seems to me that everyone could get what they want here with a bit of harmless compromise.
Black--Wave said:
I think that if one person finds the tag so hurtful that they decide they can't be a part of the site anymore, it's probably a safe bet that they're not the only ones who have an issue with it. And it's not hard to see why, yes? The implication of that title is that people with a certain look are inherently deceitful and out to get you. I don't think changing the name of the tag to... I don't know, "effeminate_male" or something would be much of a problem for everyone else. It just seems to me that everyone could get what they want here with a bit of harmless compromise.
The trap tag does not refer to any real life people. It's an anime archetype. Us using the tag does not mean that we think people who crossdress or people who are trans are "traps". That's not the meaning of the tag. It's the same way most people don't actually call little girls "lolis" in real life.

We've been working for some time on figuring out how to redesign the "transgender" tag, because people left over that tag before, and at least that we understand the issue. We're not insensitive to people's feelings, but at the same time, we're not going to make major changes just because has a feeling about something that differs from our own and wants to leave over it.
JoyJoyBoy said:
It also sucks since commissioned pieces got deleted alongside the freebies.
Took my damn avatar away. Not sure where he gets that right.
Black--Wave said:
I think that if one person finds the tag so hurtful that they decide they can't be a part of the site anymore, it's probably a safe bet that they're not the only ones who have an issue with it. And it's not hard to see why, yes? The implication of that title is that people with a certain look are inherently deceitful and out to get you. I don't think changing the name of the tag to... I don't know, "effeminate_male" or something would be much of a problem for everyone else. It just seems to me that everyone could get what they want here with a bit of harmless compromise.
Traps, in the context of fetish, are more than just effeminate men. It's about a deliberate feminine aesthetic, clothing choice, and framing to give the illusion of being female then having the unexpected twist of male parts.

While I don't like hurting people's feelings, I don't agree with the precedent it would set to change the site just because one person threatens to leave. If you let one good artist set the rules of the site by threatening to take down their art, then any artist could decide to do the same in order to make changes to things that they don't like too.
Changer said:
Traps, in the context of fetish, are more than just effeminate men. It's about a deliberate feminine aesthetic, clothing choice, and framing to give the illusion of being female then having the unexpected twist of male parts.

While I don't like hurting people's feelings, I don't agree with the precedent it would set to change the site just because one person threatens to leave. If you let one good artist set the rules of the site by threatening to take down their art, then any artist could decide to do the same in order to make changes to things that they don't like too.
This exactly.

This is my exact stance.
At this time, I believe that both parties are in the wrong, but I also acknowledge I am far from the expert at this topic.
Changer said:
Traps, in the context of fetish, are more than just effeminate men. It's about a deliberate feminine aesthetic, clothing choice, and framing to give the illusion of being female then having the unexpected twist of male parts.

While I don't like hurting people's feelings, I don't agree with the precedent it would set to change the site just because one person threatens to leave. If you let one good artist set the rules of the site by threatening to take down their art, then any artist could decide to do the same in order to make changes to things that they don't like too.
That is exactly what i think.
Said this to someone earlier, some I'm pasting it here.

Trap is used for that because the idea is that it's meant to attract males. The term itself is from @%*@ing meme, and is one itself. It's been all over the internet and people use it plenty. It's not a term used for IRL, it's an archtype used in anime and other things.

Not only is this site drawings and art rather than pics, but there's a level of hypocrisy in having that upset you on site dedicated to Hypnotism with a fair amount of "Non-consensual" pics.

Though, I do have an actually complaint in that it's a case of there being multiple tags for one thing, as there's a crossingdressing tag, a androgynous tag, among others. So I don't really see what the tag does that the others already don't.
Kachopper9 said:
Though, I do have an actually complaint in that it's a case of there being multiple tags for one thing, as there's a crossingdressing tag, a androgynous tag, among others. So I don't really see what the tag does that the others already don't.
Traps are androgynous crossdressers, but not all androgynous crossdressers are traps
"Traps" don't exist and the tag should be retired. "Crossdressing" tag is sufficient in the same way that, say, we don't have "lime_eyes" and "jade_eyes," just "green_eyes".

Saying 'trap doesn't refer to real people' disappears the very real history of queer panic being used as a defense for murder. It isn't even an 'anime archetype,' it's a 4chan meme.

If you absolutely must, use otokonoko, which doesn't associate itself with deception or stigma.

Is empathy really at this much of a premium here?

I would add: "it's used everywhere" is no defense. I can think of plenty of words that were once "used everywhere" that we now overwhelmingly agree are not acceptable discourse.
I am very sad to learn that Jack/Skye's posts will not be on the site anymore, and am also thankful that I adopted a need to save everything on my personal hard drive long before this incident.

I lose to many favorite photos from things like this happening.
Astral said:
"Traps" don't exist and the tag should be retired. "Crossdressing" tag is sufficient in the same way that, say, we don't have "lime_eyes" and "jade_eyes," just "green_eyes".

Saying 'trap doesn't refer to real people' disappears the very real history of queer panic being used as a defense for murder. It isn't even an 'anime archetype,' it's a 4chan meme.

If you absolutely must, use otokonoko, which doesn't associate itself with deception or stigma.

Is empathy really at this much of a premium here?

I would add: "it's used everywhere" is no defense. I can think of plenty of words that were once "used everywhere" that we now overwhelmingly agree are not acceptable discourse.
Traps don't exist yes. Outside of anime. And if what I've read is correct, the tag is only used in the context of what it would mean in anime. Besides, crossdressing and trap are not interchangeable.

Lastly the point of tags is that you can use them to tell what an image contains, and to find related images. Tags need to be recognizeable to work, and I had to google what otokonoko meant.
No
Astral said:
"Traps" don't exist and the tag should be retired. "Crossdressing" tag is sufficient in the same way that, say, we don't have "lime_eyes" and "jade_eyes," just "green_eyes".

Saying 'trap doesn't refer to real people' disappears the very real history of queer panic being used as a defense for murder. It isn't even an 'anime archetype,' it's a 4chan meme.

If you absolutely must, use otokonoko, which doesn't associate itself with deception or stigma.

Is empathy really at this much of a premium here?

I would add: "it's used everywhere" is no defense. I can think of plenty of words that were once "used everywhere" that we now overwhelmingly agree are not acceptable discourse.
This is true.... to an extant.
While there have been words that were used plenty of that are used less, some people still use them, albeit sparely.

The term "Trap" on the other hand, is still used by quite a bit of people.
Also, by stating it's a 4chan meme, you're literally saying a meme is offensive.

Astral said:
Is Empathy really at this much premium here?
aaaaand I can't stop myself

This is a site for hypno fetish. Many of the pics are by technicality, non-consensual.
If people want to be offended over a tag then let them, but... what does murder charges have to do with a fucking TAG. That doesn't even make any sense!

There plenty of people who like "traps".

Let me just say this: Is there anyone here who actually have a legitimate reason to be offended by the tag?

And one last thing to mention... I meant not be Transsexual or homosexual, but there is one thing I am

Autistic
There are plenty of people on the web who still use it to refer to people in a negative light.
Does it feel bad?
At times, a little, but overtime I've come to actually laugh at the jokes, to go with the punches.

Blacklisting is a goddamn thing, and if someone can't but be offended, then they should get off the internet and go lay in their safe space.

Rant. Over.
androgynous refers to a character that has either both masculine and feminine features or neither, such that it is difficult to tell their sex. crossdressing is for characters wearing clothes usually worn by the other sex. Neither of which is the exact same as trap, which specifically refers to a very feminine-looking male character, usually crossdressing (though it's not required), framed in such a way that it is very difficult to tell at first glance that you are looking at a biologically male character.

It's also, as many have pointed out, a very specific fetish that people have. I understand that sometimes terms need to change. We did away with the "sissy" tag because of that, and replaced it with the "feminization" tag, which was better anyway, since it more accurately described the tag. But, I just don't see the same logic applying to the trap tag. It's not as easy to just replace it with some other tag, since the term "trap" is so widely used, and I don't think it's good to remove it, since it's the only tag that fits that particular fetish.

As for the particular complaints I've seen here, I feel like there are some meanings and connotations being forced onto the tag that no one here actually means.
EoD said:
Traps don't exist yes. Outside of anime. And if what I've read is correct, the tag is only used in the context of what it would mean in anime. Besides, crossdressing and trap are not interchangeable.

Lastly the point of tags is that you can use them to tell what an image contains, and to find related images. Tags need to be recognizeable to work, and I had to google what otokonoko meant.
'Traps' don't exist period. Otokonoko exist, usually in anime and occasionally in real life. Crossdressers and trans folk exist in real life and occasionally in anime.

The word is disrespectful. It is a slur. GLAAD lists it as defamatory language in its media guide. We don't use *racial* slurs as tags.

I can think of no reason for it to continue to be used and several great ones not to; the grim spectre of having to Google a word is not, to my mind, a sufficient argument.

Mindwipe said:
As for the particular complaints I've seen here, I feel like there are some meanings and connotations being forced onto the tag that no one here actually means.
The word has those connotations whether you are using it "that way" or not. People don't get to decide that a word stops being a slur.
TalahDarkfang said:
If they seem to be the only one taking issue, then it's their problem, not everyone else's.
If they want to take their art down over it, that's also their choice and we have to live with it.
I took it as offensive, which is why I am on the DNP list as well. It is not just one artist. - The lack of control over ones own works and how that work is displayed upon this site is a major problem for me.

As Astral above said, it **is** a slur. Some people just really do not want to be associated with that sort of thing. I myself am fully female, but I find it unpleasant due to having many trans friends that would be hurt by the word. So if I draw a character that is transgender, the issue is, I will **not** let them be marked as 'trap', 'futa', etc if that is not what they are.
Astral said:
'Traps' don't exist period. Otokonoko exist, usually in anime and occasionally in real life. Crossdressers and trans folk exist in real life and occasionally in anime.
My SO is trans. You are literally preaching to the choir when you say "Trans folk exist". No one is debating that in any way, so stop strawmanning. It's unbecoming.

Astral said:
The word is disrespectful. It is a slur. GLAAD lists it as defamatory language in its media guide. We don't use *racial* slurs as tags.
Get me someone who fits the definition of Trap who is arguing it's offensive then I'll listen.