Heads Up, Patreon is Targeting Adult Content Creators
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqwwj/patreon-suspension-of-adult-content-creators

I know people have had their accounts suspended quite suddenly recently, and it's apparently (and sadly) not just isolated incidences. Might just be a temporary ass-covering on their part *crosses fingers* But it could also be Patreon following the model of past online creator platforms, starting the process of kicking porn to the curb after porn helped raise it up.
Mezzberry said:
But it could also be Patreon following the model of past online creator platforms, starting the process of kicking porn to the curb after porn helped raise it up.
You phrase this like the top brass at Patreon is doing this of their own free will.
They are doing this again?

Thought after last time they wouldn't do it a second time
Imasuky said:
They are doing this again?

Thought after last time they wouldn't do it a second time
Now you should know better that that.
I'm pretty positive Patreon is like 1/3rd porn or "adult content" at this point.

If they keep trying to rip off a portion of what is their clientele then they're just gonna lose it to a platform specifically catered for it.

Adults like adult things. I don't get why we as a society haven't come to terms with this.
Dystopia69 said:
Adults like adult things. I don't get why we as a society haven't come to terms with this.
A combination of the remnants of puritanism, and a Communist obsession with desexualizing society in order to divert all love towards love of the party.

Look up Stalin's efforts at desexualizing Soviet society in the 1930's. Orwell himself drew on this when writing "1984", specifically the part about abolishing the orgasm, and the junior anti sex league.

The end result is that adult content is seen as corrupting and "impure", and has been seen like that for a very long time. So you get places like Patreon getting scared of how their self image looks, and conducting purges.
Allister said:
a Communist obsession with desexualizing society in order to divert all love towards love of the party.
For that to make any sense whatsoever we would actually have to live in a place where some form of Communist Party actually held any power whatsoever. You can't try to divert peoples' affection towards a Party that doesn't actually exist.
Alright saying it now NO POLITICS!

Any farther talk about political matters will result in warnings, strikes, even bans.
Well anyway, as mentioned earlier in the thread, it looks like the decision is being pushed onto Patreon management by the payment processors that the site relies on:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/362190/patreon-adult-content-crackdown-spurred-by-payment-partners

https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/23/patreon-moves-to-restrict-adult-content-on-its-crowdfunding-site/

So we could argue about the reasons why and the reasons behind those reasons why the payment processors made this decision, but I'd say it's clear that the buck stops with them.

Hopefully this doesn't count as politics, but I'd just say that as an issue of decision-making policy this is a recurring problem with large web platforms, that there's a sort of bottleneck in the decision-making where a very small group can decide policy that effects a lot of peoples' ability to post things. And in any case where money changes hands, that bottleneck is going to be with the people who manage the payments. Short of very few exceptions they can just refuse to do business or threaten to rescind their business anytime, which can cancel the whole process.

The only way to really avoid that would be to go back to where you have all your customers just send you cash/checks/money orders through snail mail. But of course that would lose all the reach and efficiency that these large platforms offer people.
Allister said:
A combination of the remnants of puritanism, and a Communist obsession with desexualizing society in order to divert all love towards love of the party.

Look up Stalin's efforts at desexualizing Soviet society in the 1930's. Orwell himself drew on this when writing "1984", specifically the part about abolishing the orgasm, and the junior anti sex league.

The end result is that adult content is seen as corrupting and "impure", and has been seen like that for a very long time. So you get places like Patreon getting scared of how their self image looks, and conducting purges.
You aren't wrong about the fact that remnants of Puritanism result in it, but the other aspect of it is actually a malformed representation of sex in the media, where it's okay for Hollywood and magazines to have sexy (and many times nude) people in their publications, but not for the average person to.
so I guess it's safe to say that Patreon is sooner or later going down like DA and people have to create their own sites to get what they're looking for....

Anon_3.141 said:
You aren't wrong about the fact that remnants of Puritanism result in it, but the other aspect of it is actually a malformed representation of sex in the media, where it's okay for Hollywood and magazines to have sexy (and many times nude) people in their publications, but not for the average person to.
Because the big ones 'know' what you should be allowed to view and you shouldn't be allowed to decide on your own, imagine you searching the web for porn for free and not buying their exclusive magazines anymore...that would be a catastrophe for them.
notanotheralias said:
Well anyway, as mentioned earlier in the thread, it looks like the decision is being pushed onto Patreon management by the payment processors that the site relies on:
Man, I still remember when hypno-porn makers had to stop using the words hypnosis, hypnotize, hypnotism, trance, and other such words, because payment processors refused to work with them because of it.

It's honestly sad that payment processors do this so often.
Anno1404 said:
[...]

Because the big ones 'know' what you should be allowed to view and you shouldn't be allowed to decide on your own, imagine you searching the web for porn for free and not buying their exclusive magazines anymore...that would be a catastrophe for them.
I suppose the one saving grace is that the big ones at least publish a fairly wide variety of kinks in their publications, so that there's a little bit for (almost) everyone. And "children's" cartoons are used to provide our shared kink.
Mindwipe said:
It's honestly sad that payment processors do this so often.
Payment processors are likely subject to government regulation and reporting (OFAC, FinCEN, etc) because of the volume of money they handle. They don't want any money that passes through them that could even remotely smells like a byproduct of something illicit, and with porn and sexual art there's always that fear, let alone the backlash if a minor crosses paths with it in any way. No one wants to go down for money laundering.

Let's be real: anything labeled as pornography will, by definition be considered a taboo subject and beating your chest about how "woke" you are and trying to claim the moral high ground isn't going to help things.
Okay without getting political...

The act of sex is not what you'd call a clean act. When you get right down to it it's actually rather disgusting, and it has the potential to cause horrible consequences, up to and including STD's.

So sex is easy to label as offensive, or wrong, or impure. That label is also not entirely wrong. Without proper precautions, sex can ruin your life.

So you have some people opposed to sex because of their views involving purity. This opposition has been around for a very long time and it is not going away.
Allister said:
Okay without getting political...

The act of sex is not what you'd call a clean act. When you get right down to it it's actually rather disgusting,
Then you've had sex with the wrong person. Or you saw only pr0n involving (extreme) kinks.

Beat me how you categorize sex as disgusting. If everyone would have that mindset. Mankind is soon extinct.

Sex could be one of these things

1. Sex is about love. Applying love.
2. Getting offspring so you do not need to hire a nurse to look after you at your old day and pay indirectly your social pension.
3. Pleasure (at least for one of the practitioners or the viewer(s)).

On topic: This was kinda expected since Patreon is the biggest of the online funding-market. (Is there even a competitor?).

The sad thing is, there can't be a new player in the market specializing for adult content, because money processors e.g. Paypal and credit card processors (Visa, MasterCard) hate adult content as well.
Cryptocurrency would be the only thing what works, but for the Average Joe too complex to use.
There was a nice lengthy discussion on these news on HN which I found quite enlightening. To try to sum up the main lessons, it seems that the main reason why payment processors don't like porn is chargebacks, and porn attracts chargebacks for a number of reasons (I'm picking the ones that I understood and that seemed convincing to me):

- Because the goods are digital and delivered immediately, porn sites get used by criminals for testing stolen credit card numbers

- Porn is often bought by people who won't be able to justify it on their credit statement at the end of the month; perhaps not to their spouse, perhaps not to their parents (!), perhaps not to themselves

- Plenty of porn sites really are shady, and charge people more than they actually signed up for

Out of those three reasons, only #2 really applies to Patreon (and I guess #1 sort of does), but I wouldn't be surprised if payment processors were inflexible enough about this that adult Patreon projects also have to live in the shadow of #3.

There were also some mentions of an https://onlyfans.com/ as a Patreon competitor in this field. I've never heard of them before (the furry porn projects I'm throwing money at on Patreon are doing well enough), but being that their site smells of antiseptic and takes a 20% cut, and their Twitter hashtag gets some very explicit stuff posted on it, yeah, it looks very much like a "Patreon for porn". Except that, because of the bit about them taking 20%, any project that can get away with staying on Patreon will obviously want to do it.
Zermelane said:
- Because the goods are digital and delivered immediately, porn sites get used by criminals for testing stolen credit card numbers

- Porn is often bought by people who won't be able to justify it on their credit statement at the end of the month; perhaps not to their spouse, perhaps not to their parents (!), perhaps not to themselves

- Plenty of porn sites really are shady, and charge people more than they actually signed up for

Out of those three reasons, only #2 really applies to Patreon (and I guess #1 sort of does), but I wouldn't be surprised if payment processors were inflexible enough about this that adult Patreon projects also have to live in the shadow of #3.
With #3 I don't think it's just the sites. The producers themselves aren't always forthcoming when it comes to consent, safety, and sometimes even age. The adult content umbrella is too large for nuance, and those of you trying to think up a "well, actually" should know by now that if you need to defend yourself with a "well, actually" you've already lost the argument.

I think I said this in various ways the last time this came up but it's not a surprise, just disappointing, and those who are surprised are either naive or disingenuous.
Sir_Lurksalaot said:
The producers themselves aren't always forthcoming when it comes to consent, safety, and sometimes even age.
The problem is for many people where they are it may be widely accepted or even straight up legal to do certain things but it may NOT be acceptable or legal in other places. Age of consent varies depending on where you are as well as safety standards (IIRC at one point California was musing making all pornos use condoms). Never mind obvious things relevant to this site like lolis.

We live in a world which is increasingly connected but people come from places where the on-the-ground realities are VASTLY different. What happens when someone produces content acceptable where they are but not acceptable elsewhere? In Patreon's case, if people make a big enough fuss about it and hold them accountable, then they just suppress it.

This isn't anything new, either. We saw this going back to Rapelay. (in fact, how much of our current social situation can be seen in the reaction to Rapelay continues to astound me)
Sir_Lurksalaot said:
You phrase this like the top brass at Patreon is doing this of their own free will.
Apologies if that's what came across, I tried to present the two possible outcomes / motivations and I'm honestly not passing serious judgment against Patreon even if they're going the latter route. I'm still holding out hope that this is just a temporary ass-covering on their part, and that the crackdown is simply meant to shock people into following their ToU more closely, rather than the first step towards an adult-content purge. From what little I understand, as long as you keep all of your adult content locked behind your patron-only access, you're not in violation. The only thing that scares me is that they are being very broad in what constitutes 'adult content;' 'implied nudity' seems to be the term that is being used most often as a justification, and which is giving the most people fits.

I actually don't have any firsthand experience with Patreon yet, so I couldn't comment on the finer points. But it's been a building dream for me over the past year that I could possibly make a living there doing some story-driven original fetish projects there. I'd heard recently that a friend of a friend got suspended, and then my heart went out to another friend when I heard they'd suddenly been suspended; but I also couldn't help but feel a more selfish surge of fear over my future plans possibly getting shattered. When situations like this happen, clarity is always a great relief: so when I found this article elsewhere I wanted to link it here, in case people suffering from a suspension might feel better from having that same clarity.

Hopefully that better explains my motivations here.
I had noticed that pokemongirl's patreon was 'under review' but I've been out of the loop for a while so I wasn't sure if that was news or not. Good luck to everyone inside & outside our community that have patreon pages I guess.
Sir_Lurksalaot said:
Payment processors are likely subject to government regulation and reporting (OFAC, FinCEN, etc) because of the volume of money they handle. They don't want any money that passes through them that could even remotely smells like a byproduct of something illicit, and with porn and sexual art there's always that fear, let alone the backlash if a minor crosses paths with it in any way. No one wants to go down for money laundering.

Let's be real: anything labeled as pornography will, by definition be considered a taboo subject and beating your chest about how "woke" you are and trying to claim the moral high ground isn't going to help things.
Yup. There's liability dangers all over the place there (not just about minors getting exposed, but the many different laws that different countries have, and the very real danger of underage actors slipping through or a site being a front for hardcore kiddie porn) and many major payment processors don't want a part of that. The market will always be there, but you then have to go off to the side with less scrupulous organizations who'll charge higher fees for poorer service just because they're willing to trade in porn.
Mezzberry said:
Hopefully that better explains my motivations here.
Fair enough. I just know a lot of people like to portray Patreon as the Big Bad Evil Corporation, persecuting harmless and decent kinksters because they're Big Bad and Evil when barely any of that statement is true. It's like intentionally buying a red car and then being shocked, SHOCKED that they're getting extra attention from the highway patrol. We all knew what the risks were getting in and this is just an unfortunate part of doing business. Fetlife had this happen, too, way before Patreon started clamping down and it survives to this day.

I've also been curious about Patreon for non-porn stuff, but my problems are 1) my type of output (live programming as opposed to videos/other goods) is not very conducive to the Patreon business model and adapting is going to be a pain, and 2) I already make a living wage from my day job so fandom is going to tell me to pound sand.
I would say it's more like buying a red car and waking up one morning to find it has been repossessed for being red and you have to go buy a new car, and still pay off the red one.