HypnoHub - On AI and a pendulum swinging too far

BugmenotEncore

04/24/24 08:35AM

Mindwipe said:
I cannot stress this enough: I don't make the rules here. I have a very small say on certain things, but I don't decide policy. If it were up to me, AI art would be banned, with very few exceptions. Same with manips, honestly. But it isn't up to me. Again, my opinions are my own and are not reflective of the rest of the team.

I believe I understand. In that case, based on what you are saying, there are more pro-AI voices on the team? Is there someone generators or myself could approach with our concerns?

I had a grievance with a moderation choice recently. I didn't just want to start Yet another forum thread about AI art, especially while this one is still going on. But it stuck to my mind and I'd like to settle it.

It's also unfortunately not as easy as just changing the site or making a new site.

I apologize for my poor choice of words, I shouldn't have said the process would be easy. Straightforward, perhaps, would have been less loaded.

I recognize it would be a lot of effort, undertaken by a team of mostly volunteers.

. We could make some kind of AI site using booru.org, which is also owned by Slayerduck and runs on the same basic framework, but you know us mods would still be telling people to post their AI art there instead of here until the day we die.

Maybe you wouldn't have to be. Like you said, booru.org derivatives run on the same framework. So the code for an image's page on the two sites would be almost identical, right?

You could set up a pipeline between the sites so one could automatically transfer images between them, tags and source links and all. You could moderate a category mismatch with the push of a button.

(P.S: This isn't entirely on topic for this thread, but I think the site's been kinda slipping recently, right? I'm not the only one? I'm not sure what slayeduck's doing, but the site needs a makeover in general, not just AI-wise.)

OperationTransport

04/24/24 09:29AM

Mindwipe said:
We STILL get IRL manips all the time despite those having been banned for like a decade now.

Regarding that, can the mod team please give an updated rules page, maybe as a wiki page. The tos is imported from rule34's tos and doesn't reflect hypnohub's rules accurately and completely.

Detour

04/24/24 03:36PM

BugmenotEncore said:
Is there someone generators or myself could approach with our concerns?

I had a grievance with a moderation choice recently. I didn't just want to start Yet another forum thread about AI art, especially while this one is still going on. But it stuck to my mind and I'd like to settle it.

You can always DM a mod with your question if you want to solve it privately, just don't make a habit out of it. Nobody here is interested in having to argue about every single deletion that happens on the site, especially if it's AI art which is already subject to increased scrutiny because of low-effort spam.

BugmenotEncore said:
Maybe you wouldn't have to be. Like you said, booru.org derivatives run on the same framework. So the code for an image's page on the two sites would be almost identical, right?

You could set up a pipeline between the sites so one could automatically transfer images between them, tags and source links and all. You could moderate a category mismatch with the push of a button.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. Please stop making assumptions about the technical aspects of the site if you don't know what you're talking about.

OperationTransport said:
Regarding that, can the mod team please give an updated rules page, maybe as a wiki page. The tos is imported from rule34's tos and doesn't reflect hypnohub's rules accurately and completely.

Pretty much everything regarding the rules is outdated, be it the rules page or the wiki. I've tried to get them updated at some point but haven't had any luck in getting the ball rolling on any of that.

LilaLovestar

04/24/24 06:39PM

BugmenotEncore said:

Mindwipe said:
Real artists ARE getting fucked over by this, and it IS getting harder and harder to sift through the avalanche of AI to find the actual hand-drawn art.

What you say is true in isolation, but there is a bigger picture.

The fact is AI is already here. And as it exists, it relies on artists To exist - if you don't have artists to produce the art, you can't feed the AI anything to work with but older art and AI images produced from older art. It will get old just as quick as it appeared.

AI image generation is at Best wholly dependent on artists in the long term.

But it's also not Going Away. People can now create detailed, beautiful art with comparatively little skill and and time investment. Trying to put a lid on this is futile. Of course people are going to do be doing it. And then they will want to share it, that's the whole purpose of making something. For hypnosis art, this Is the place.

And for the most part you guys haven't sent them away.
Pointing at AI and saying it is bad for a system that existed before it is both obvious and reductive. Of course old infrastructure is going to be buried under this much added volume.

Platforms, hypnohub included, are the ones who need to adapt to AI. So that those who create the art, and thus, are core to the entire ecosystem, can survive.

This Can be as easy as leaving AI art to go somewhere else. Another site will pop up eventually that is set up to take on AI generated pictures if they are categorically forbidden. Information wants to be free and all that.

Maybe you guys could give it a head start yourself. You have experience. Open another imageboard, transfer the AI art the hub already has, hand over the keys, send them on their way. I think that would show it was done for pragmatic reasons and there would be little ill will.

Another solution is to change the site so artists get precedent over generators. I myself sincerely believe they Should, and I would support any change in that direction.

But keeping AI generated images here, And wallowing in the unfairness of their existence, is to have your cake and eat it at the same time. They cannot be reconciled. One of those has to go.

You know that is bullshit, this site literally banned Lolicon and Shotacon, they can do the same with AI Generated Art, if any slip through then report them to the moderators

All it takes is to be brave enough to actually announce it and go through with it - just because something is here doesn't mean you have to accept it BEING a thing, fight for a better and healthier site instead of just giving up

Detour

04/24/24 07:54PM

We could absolutely ban AI art if we wanted to, it's just that we decided over a year and a half ago now that we wouldn't, and instead would be stricter on what is allowed in terms of quality and (later on) repetitiveness.

LilaLovestar

04/24/24 07:59PM

Detour said:
We could absolutely ban AI art if we wanted to, it's just that we decided over a year and a half ago now that we wouldn't, and instead would be stricter on what is allowed in terms of quality and (later on) repetitiveness.

That is absolutely disappointing

BugmenotEncore

04/25/24 03:29AM

LilaLovestar said:
-Snip-

Not sure why you have quoted Me o.oc I also agree with the aim of banning AI art

for Wastly different reasons, granted, but that's not a problem for me if it isn't for you.

Detour said:
You can always DM a mod with your question if you want to solve it privately, just don't make a habit out of it. Nobody here is interested in having to argue about every single deletion that happens on the site, especially if it's AI art which is already subject to increased scrutiny because of low-effort spam.

That's tantamount to saying I shouldn't harass the staff. I can handle that low bar for decency, I think.

It's also not new information. I'd like to talk to someone sympathetic to these things. They would be more willing to talk. Even if we assume impartiality(at this stage I don't see why we would not), seems like messaging the staff at random would risk that member having to pretend to care about a section of the site they would have rather seen gone. I don't want people putting their morals aside for me if I can help it.

OperationTransport

04/25/24 05:00AM

If enough people petitions, would the mod team reconsider the policy on AI art?

also Bugmenot, if you really want to make a community of hypno ai art, you could start a subreddit or something

starfy

04/25/24 05:56AM

My thought generally lays on the stance of this: as long as you're being forthcoming about the fact that you're using AI, it should be fine. There are some times where people just don't have the money to make a commission, the skill to draw, or the time to learn to draw, and that shouldn't mean that a damn good caption shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day because of former problems. As long as you're being completely forthcoming on the nature of your work, I don't think AI should be a problem. Plus, if you really hate AI images, you do have the option to blacklist the ai_art tag. Therefore, I stand on the side of keeping the current rules.

Detour

04/25/24 09:09AM

OperationTransport said:
If enough people petitions, would the mod team reconsider the policy on AI art?

Probably not? Our policy has always been to allow as much as we can and with AI we're already a lot stricter than we usually are. If we went back and started removing content because a group of users got vocal enough about it there wouldn't be a lot left of the site.

Mind you the ban on loli/shota content wasn't just "We don't like this content", it was a legal issue as well.

LilaLovestar

04/25/24 10:39AM

Well I've made my view on it and the amount of Bloat/Spam and Damage it does to the actual sites, it's going to be a snowball that you will regret later on.

Where AI art can be a tool for inspiration and the like it should not be classed as ACTUAL art and should not be allowed, there are plenty of artists who actually need recognition and support

As I said before it's a huge disappointment where you could of done the right thing but alas we are just users on this site and I know there are plenty of people who think artists don't deserve support

Sir_Lurksalaot

04/25/24 02:29PM

LilaLovestar said:
As I said before it's a huge disappointment where you could of done the right thing but alas we are just users on this site and I know there are plenty of people who think artists don't deserve support

I feel like trying to rehash this conversation isn't exciting. If this site wants to take a similar stance to AO3 in being more welcoming than not, that's fine. Also, I'm sure you're already aware of this site's blacklist features.

I will say that as non-creative as GAI content and GAI users often are, them generally getting what media and opinions they consume from algorithms and then using that input to create more algorithmically generated content lends itself to a kind of dronifcation, and that may be the most artistic thing about it.