I was thinking of actually contributing to this website
though I have little experience drawing and have only a few hours a day free to draw so it might take awhile to post something

GIMP. It's free and it offers a lot of options.

Really, it all depends on what it is that that you want to do, or how clunky a program you want.

Adobe Flash can lead to some gorgeous work, if you know how to use it. It's rather ... heavy though if you want just an art program.
Adobe Photoshop is probably the main one out there - it's got a LOT of options and is probably hell to navigate if you're new to it.
Paint Tool SAI is an awesome lightweight program that opens .psd files with zero problems. It can do vector layers as well. Oh, only works on Windows, no mac install yet.
Manga Studio (what I use) is something that I've recently begun using. Theres a LOT of customization for the layout and for the brushes. It's a bit of a clunkier program than something like Sai though.
Gimp is free, as was said, but I think it's a crap shoot. Can't get it to install on my laptop for some reason... If you like layers though, or rather if you like Masking layers OR folders, DO NOT SAVE AS A .PSD IN GIMP. It'll flatten the damned thing.
Fire Alpalca is another free one, that I've heard isn't too bad.

My suggestion? Pick one to try and torrent it if it isn't free. Just screw the free ones.

I am afraid I have to disagree with Lunakiri hiere. Additionally, last I heard we do not encourage piracy here (as long as you can buy it in your country).

I therefore suggest Gimp as Dr_Mabuse did. Lunakiri's been having problem with her Laptop for ages (at least I have seen several posts from her about this) and one computer having issues is hardly a reason not to use a program that runs well on a million others.

Granted, Gimp can be a little clunky in specific situations - which you won't be confronted with as a beginner. Additionally, getting into Gimp is probably a little easier than into Photoshop, though that might be different for each person. Transitioning from one tool to another, isn't a big deal. I've been using gimp for more than a year and it works fine for what I do and probably what you want to do as well. I've created everything from still images, to mangas to animations with it and it does its job well. You will by no means be hindered in creating content for this site when you are starting out. Yours and Lunakiri's requirements are probably completly different and unless you have an abundance of image editing knowledge (which you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be asking) or a digital drawing board (in which case you probably already got decent software and/or would still be fine with starting out with gimp) you'll be more than okay with using gimp.


If you get a lot of knowledge and editing skills and you are missing certain functions that are only present in photoshop, you could still switch later and will not have any problems doing so.

That said, Photoshop doesn't need to be bought for hundreds of dollars anymore, they have a monthly rate available to use the latest photoshop, which is a reasonable 10$ per month. Adobe did see piracy rise because their products are desired but costly. They put their heads together and offered a decent plan so that everyon could use their products. Don't pirate stuff when they offer you a decent price, and if you do not have the money or don't want to pay it, stick with gimp - it's a more than decent image manipulator for people that aren't professionals (and even some of them do use it).

//shrugs
Mine
My fiancees
A friends
Yep. They count for nothing =P Gimp is just a bit of a crap shoot. AND they don't save .PSD files right. They flatten images. Plainb and simple. You make folders, save as PSD, it is FLAT. I've seen it happen. //cries

And I can supply a 1oo% completely legit $7o USD copy of Paint Tool Sai to people. I bought it years ago. XD

Also, Piracy is a bloody thing. I don't get why it's such a hush-hush topic.
Person A wants X program [or movie, or music, or whatever].
Person A is too fucking cheap to buy it themselves.
Person A Googles free options. Torrent sites come up.
=P
I think it's ridiculous how people come down on others about that [I know you aren't, exactly, but still].

One last thing. WHAT are you disagreeing with me on?
Program options?
Program usages?
Or are you just saying 'no' to the whole torrent option? XD [And I never said get a cracked copy. Even for legit programs, I get a torrent of the file since it downloads better for me. Reason for example. I have a 1oo% legit copy of reason, but the program is SO fucking large that a torrent is the best way to go about it. I can pause it or whatever easier than if I were to use my browser, which would be the default. I just said torrent it, NOT crack it =P. Semantics, I know]

Aaaaaanywho, 111, I've worked with both Photoshop and GIMP. The reason I use GIMP is because it was free back when I worked as a graphic design assistant and I could work on files from home when I was away from the shiny desktop with PS. All of my original training and classes were in PS, but I've grown to really like GIMP.

But it really just comes down to preference. GIMP can be a bit bulky to get used to, and it doesn't have quite all of the options that PS does. However with the numerous plugins and some nifty advantages (i.e. more animation friendly fun), I think it's pretty powerful. I'd recommend PS more for photographers and full-time graphic designers who want something a bit lighter on their computers, but even then my boss used Illustrator a lot more.

So pretty much you can always try out a trial of PS and download GIMP or Paint.NET or whatever seems fun and compare them for yourself ^^

If you're looking to manip, you can check out the <<hypnohub.net/forum/show/2317|Tips and Tricks thread,>> which has contributions from greasyi, zko, cradily, and I among others. There's tutorials for different effects and getting started with GIMP as well.

If you want to draw...I'm not quite sure what people use for that. Some prefer tablets, while I normally draw on paper and then scan it to GIMP for lining (I've even taken camera photos and lined it over when I didn't have access to a scanner @_@). Tablets can be an investment and if its more a simple time-passer it might be better to practice with pencil and paper first.

Hope that helps!

First - I don't want to start a war like Photoshop is better or Gimp is better. I just wanted to answer the question with which program someone should start out, and there's a clear winner - let me be more precise ...


Never had a problem with it on hundreds of configurations. I don't save as PSD in Gimp, because it has xcf as file format which worked fine. Additionally, Gimp CAN open PSD while Photoshop can't open xcf.


Or they could just use Gimp for free and because both Gimp and Photoshop have similiarities, they will have it easy if they later switch to a more advanced program.


Piracy is here, live with it - that what you are saying? Piracy is a problem of ease of availability of products. If you have a common plattform where you can get stuff easily for a reasonable price, let's say .. netflix .. crunchyroll or steam (allthough the former 2 have their country restrictions which make them obsolete in other countries), less piracy will occur. Who in their frigging mind has 500$ to pay for a photoshop license? Of course they pirate it. But if you offer them the product for a really fair price they can use it to grow and don't need to pirate it. Adobe is making a ton of more money because they made it available to everyone. And this is a practice we should support - not undermine with more piracy because then we are back to the old system and someday there will be a DRM (oh and there are ways to permanently stop pirating - they just hurt legal consumers even more than pirates) and nobody gets to use it.


Both. I'd probably not had said anything on the piracy thing if there wasn't a good offer from adobe like that, but I will always advise people starting out to not invest a huge amount of money and test for a couple of months if you really like it. You don't buy a 500$ Tennis racket for your first training, don't you? No, you either lend a racket or you get a cheaper one so you can get used to it and upgrade later.

Photoshop might be a bit overwhelming the first time you start it - Gimp is a lot easier to handle in the first couple of months so I'd advise everyone to start there. If you have fun and think you have advanced a few skill levels, then by all means, consider that monthly Photoshop CS subscription.

But I would never, ever tell someone new here "Hey, you can steal this expensive software from that company" - they have to earn money as well and feed their families. Software Engineering is pretty tough nowadays that everyone pirates it. So at least support the good guys.

Okay, first the actual, relevant opinion stuff:

<<processing.org/|I would recommend you learn processing>> and <<en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX| the tex family of typesetting languages>>. Because I'm the devil.

I think that it is a mistake to ask what program should be used. In my experience, I found tools that met my needs and I used them. Some of them met one need spectacularly, and were used expressly for that purpose. So could you be more specific in what you want to contribute? At that point someone might be more specific on what could fit that need.

There are a few projects I think would be helpful for a person just starting out.
I'd say start with a combination of html/javascript off a text editor; with a goal of putting up and formatting images on a fake web page. Another project is to practice scanning things you draw into your computer. Figure out just what goes into installing programs and evaluating programs. Read program documentation (which you can almost universally get for free).
I learned many dark powers and spells by reading the manual.

If you ask a specific question about a specific topic, say manipping or illustration, there is bound to be someone who can give you a specific answer.

General questions are the root of all evil... speaking of which!

Hey HypnoMangaEditor. I don't know if you intend to do this. But you are coming off as a software evangelist. Evangelists bring out the worst in me. You should probably quit while you are ahead, before harsh words are exchanged and an admin has to step in. I am not necessarily the person who will do this, but the way you are going after Lunakiri it will happen.

You completed objective in saying you think gimp is best. You have some points. If someone has to have the last word please have some sympathy and taste.

I am not an evangelist of anything - I just wanted to point out there are cheap legal ways to get both image manipulators. Statements like:


and

while saying

... which is clearly not a statement that makes sense with the other 2 and aren't really appropriate for people new to our page.

We don't want to start with "to produce content, you need to steal". We want to encourage people with all tool options and tell them their pro and cons and if they want to pay for them, either show them the best option or say "look, this prog is pretty good, but it costs a ton, you might want to stay away from it or use a trial before you invest that much money."

If they come to the conclusion that they CAN pirate it and WANT to pirate it - then there's nothing we could do. But let's at least not encourage piracy as long as there are ways to get what you want for a decent price. Like I said - we want those practices that are used by Adobe for example.

1st piracy is best left at sea
2nd I think I'll use gimp for now
3rd though as I said I am an amateur with little time I will try my best to make something good but is it ok if I ask for a suggestion of something simple to start with

Glad we could help in your choice! If you want to find something to try out, you can check out the General Manip Request Thread or the Art Request Thread for ideas!

I think they what something a bit better than what I can produce
I'm using a touch pad on a laptop and I don't have a steady hand
so can you maybe recommend something simple for a first try

2) Cool, I'd encourage you to cycle through a few freeware programs to see how "fun" it is to install them and different ways of doing things.

3) Do you want simple art projects that you and a few friends will see, for practice, or an easy image idea? Also, in my vocabulary manip means something a bit different than drawing or illustration (generally speaking: 'Drawing' and 'Illustration' are more specific versions of Original Content)... they require different considerations, so the suggestions I give from one standpoint or another are going to be different.

I use Photoshop myself. I've tried GIMP but couldn't get into it due to being so used to Photoshop.

They'll both work well enough to make image manipulations with. Photoshop has the content-aware tool which can auto-fill an area with reasonably correct patterns for you - good for detexting images.

I also find Photoshop's GUI a bit easier to work with than GIMP's, though that's probably just because I'm used to using Photoshop now.