yesterday, PrincessSkyler came to me via skype, clearly upset about discovering something from hypnohub that appeared to be traced over a piece she had commissioned from a friend, although it had other colours + background and a slightly different hairstyle (to make it look like their OC). since it was her persona in the original picture, which is on the "do not post" list i presume (at least the artist tag is, but so far any picture about her persona has been removed shortly afterwards), so she thought it is still partially about her.

other names shall be left unmentioned, as i'd rather not stir further drama about this incident. unless something goes really badly wrong anyway, that is

so, i thought it would be worth asking, is there any policy regarding traced art uploads? are there any special tags, should the original reference image be used as the source etc...? since manips are a thing here, i have my doubts

i could not find anything from the post guidelines regarding any special tags or such, and from forums, i mostly just found people recommending tracing as a form of practicing. "it stops being your art" was said but i don't think i found anyone saying if it's against the rules or such

That's a tricky one. I'm sure there are others, but I can only think of one other picture that was traced. In that case, we tagged it with the original artist, too.

So it's not Skyler's art, but it was her commission, and it was her character in the original? Can you link the two images? I'm curious about just how blatant the tracing was.

As long as the image looks okay, I would want to lean towards keeping it. But, if it's based on Skyler's work, it should probably be deleted. I don't understand or like being on the dnp list, but I respect it

idk anything about rules on tracing, but in PricessSkyler's case she expressly forbids usage of her persona in sexual artwork (the reason being is that the OC is based on her, and both she and the OC are underage, so the OC being used sexually makes her very uncomfortable), she allows it to be used for derivative art that is non-sexual, but anything involving Skyler should not be on this site, traced or otherwise.

So maybe there's a tracing policy, maybe not, but in this specific instance even if tracing is allowed, that image would have to be removed.

Plus personally I think taking someone else's hard work, and simply recoloring it so you can pass it off as your own, is just wrong. Manips are different because they acknowledge that the original image isn't the manipper's, but redrawing something with a different color scheme and saying its your original work is just plagiarism. That's just my opinion though.

Hmmm. Tricky. I'd DM the links for the original and the trace to a mod and see what they do. Personally. Manips get pulled down if the original artist or commissioner asks (Which is right) I don't think tracing should be different. However. Are you sure it's traced? Not just using the original as reference? I wouldn't post the links here (That'd cause drama) but without actually seeing them it's hard to make a call either way

It's a mod/admin decision for sure. Message Vanndril and tell him the story, link to the pictures and let him decide. I am sure this can then be resolved peacefully.

Here's my view as an artist: Commissioned art is primarily the property of the client.

As an artist, if I do a commission, I maintain some specific rights, but all of those are (a) not for profit (b) unless otherwise negotiated with the client. Specifically, I retain distribution and publication rights, while allowing the client to distribute it so long as my signature remains intact. I do not reserve the right to sell the product or to make other derivative works based upon it -- the client has the right to decide if it can be sold and how (though if a client intended reproduction and sale of my work, I would probably negotiate a royalty payment for my work), and if they approve or disapprove of derivative works.

In particular, I keep the rights I do for the sake of professional attribution and use in portfolios. If I were the artist who had made the original picture in question, I would side with Princess Skyler on this matter: Her character is her IP, the commissioned image is my IP licensed to her, and if she believes the secondary image in question is a derivative work of the image she paid me to make, I would say she has the right to file a claim of infringement.

As an artist, I recognize that tracing is a valuable tool for learning, but publishing a trace would be like trying to publish a transcription of a novel: tracing publication should be limited to scraps at the most, and should always credit the original source.

I would say that if Hypnohub is to have a policy on tracing, it should be that traces ought to credit the original source and should in all other ways follow the DNP guidelines. In other words: tracing a DNP image does not (or at least, should not) give you permission to upload your trace here.

I would think that tracing would be fairly similar to maniping as far as organization goes; as it's not an original drawing, but rather a modified version of an original drawing and thus aught to have the manipper tag rather than an artist tag.

As for whether or not it should be allowed in the case of the original artist having a problem with it; I'd think it should be treated similarly to how we would respond to someone asking us not to have a manip of one of their drawings on the site.

IMO if the quality of the traced pic is good enough and reference is given to the original image then it's pretty much the same as a manip (well, to be fair, there's probably more artistic effort involved as well, unless it's completely half-arsed). That's also the position that I'll represent if it comes to QCC votings.

If the artist of the original piece (and to some extend the commissioner if there is one) wants the traced pic gone ... then things will get more complicated. In that case Vanndril should be contacted and he'll figure it out with the other mods. Though I guess it'll get handled similarly to a blacklisting request.

I think you're right. If it was just a tracing, it's scummy but it's basically a manip. We'd make sure to source the original and move on.

It's just weird in this case because the original is on the DNP list

And that's why I think the policy needs to consider both the source and the DNP. If we weren't allowed to post characters from Pokemon, tracing a character from Pokemon to make them not a POkemon character would be just as weird. If the source is DNP, then the manip should also be DNP.