Kayvaan
11/09/18 11:45PM
moderate the moderation flags ?
Hello everyone !

Ok, I am no longer active, been away for a long time, and surely things have changed (like in all communities, and it's perfectly normal. Things would get boring if they didn't change !).

I don't know if this topic was already brought up, though not really from what I've read. If it's the case, the admins are welcome to close this topic. But there is a trend I've noticed lately and that I find quite bothering : a lot of pictures are flagged for moderation, not because of a violation of the rules or because an artist has requested so, but because the picture's content simply doesn't suit the viewer's expectations.

Please take a look at this picture : hypnohub.net/post/show/71...easts_outside-corruption-. From my point of view, it looks simple and classical. There's room for improvement, but just like every other manip here (hell, some of mine could use a lot of improvements !). Yet, that wasn't enough for the person who flagged it for moderation with the following motive :

"Low-effort pic manip (couldn't even go as far as spiral eyes, for Palutena's sake). Almost completely unrelated story simply stapled on the side (any random pic of Palutena would go with this). Story contains no actual elements of hypnosis (it's after the fact, not even specific about what method had been used, and nothing about her speech even seems hypnotized; it's a case of Tell and not Show). Story element is very low quality by itself (less effort might have been spent on the writing than the pic manip. ".

My problem with that is simple : no matter what its flaws may be, this picture still depicts a hypnosis theme, and the manipulation is smooth enough. It respects the rules of this hub. *there is nothing to moderate here.* And that's the same for many other flags.

The person who made the flag might have wished for something else. He can be only interested in well manipped pictures with a story more focused on the actual trancing process. Nothing wrong with that. But the manip mentioned before, and many, many manips I've seen around don't violate any rule, and the quality is on par with most of the manips of the hub.This was subjectively flagged, when objectivity should be the rule. Or in other words, you may not like it, but it doesn't mean it's bad - simply not what you want. That's what the tags are here for, along with the scores and the search bar.

What I'm asking is for people to tone it down on the moderation flag, and keep it for pictures that are violating the rules or which are clearly too low-quality. And even for that second point, the limit between acceptable pictures and too low quality can be blurry, so if you're unsure, maybe rather than a moderation flag, make a comment to suggest ideas and where to make effort. We are a community bound by the same interests (perversions ? ;) ). Let's help others and newcomers rather than shoot them down because they didn't do it perfectly the first time.

THIS ALL BEING SAID : I have made my point, but as mentioned in the beginning, maybe the rules and expectations of pictures have changed. I'd like to hear your opinions on it.
Zombifier
11/10/18 12:55AM
This is why I don't post my art here anymore. Someone always has a problem. Someone always wants to interject their tastes before everyone else. Someone always wants to complain that it didn't get their rocks off so no one else deserves to see it, either. It's grown far too toxic, and I just decided it wasn't worth sharing my art here anymore if that was the reaction I got. It's a shame when everyone suffers because of a few malcontents.
godzillahomer
11/10/18 02:30AM
agreed, taste based flagging is out of control

flagging abuse should get the privilege to flag revoked; if they can't use it responsibly, they shouldn't have it

the whole toxicity of flagging has gotten me to where I'll never use the flagging system, just make a comment about the issue or issues and hope a mod sees it
Changer
11/10/18 03:14AM
Yeah, I would agree that spam flagging should be met with a revocation of the ability to flag. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that is something that cannot be done, since the site's features are difficult/impossible to modify.

Perhaps though, a rule should at least be made to not write an essay or insulting rant into the flag reason? Like, keep it concise. the QCC will look at it and make their call.

I can't tell if the image in question here did or didn't deserve the flag (in my opinion at least.) though, as it has already been deleted.
111
11/10/18 03:43AM
Triple:I agree, artwork is always gonna be subjective especially quality when you look across art styles
godzillahomer
11/10/18 04:12AM
Changer said:
Yeah, I would agree that spam flagging should be met with a revocation of the ability to flag. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that is something that cannot be done, since the site's features are difficult/impossible to modify.

Perhaps though, a rule should at least be made to not write an essay or insulting rant into the flag reason? Like, keep it concise. the QCC will look at it and make their call.

I can't tell if the image in question here did or didn't deserve the flag (in my opinion at least.) though, as it has already been deleted.


if they can't revoke the privileged, abusing it can be made a ban-able offense; with increasing severity the more it's abused by someone

(like: 1 Week ban > 1 month ban > permaban)

111 said:
Triple:I agree, artwork is always gonna be subjective especially quality when you look across art styles


very true; low quality is something that differs between artists; a newbie's high quality would be a pro's trash can liner for example

same with low effort; a newbie might put in a HUGE effort to achieve little while a lazy pro is just coasting by and has stagnated
ghost13
11/10/18 04:43AM
Kayvaan said:
Hello everyone !

Ok, I am no longer active, been away for a long time, and surely things have changed (like in all communities, and it's perfectly normal. Things would get boring if they didn't change !).

I don't know if this topic was already brought up, though not really from what I've read. If it's the case, the admins are welcome to close this topic. But there is a trend I've noticed lately and that I find quite bothering : a lot of pictures are flagged for moderation, not because of a violation of the rules or because an artist has requested so, but because the picture's content simply doesn't suit the viewer's expectations.

Please take a look at this picture : hypnohub.net/post/show/71...easts_outside-corruption-. From my point of view, it looks simple and classical. There's room for improvement, but just like every other manip here (hell, some of mine could use a lot of improvements !). Yet, that wasn't enough for the person who flagged it for moderation with the following motive :

"Low-effort pic manip (couldn't even go as far as spiral eyes, for Palutena's sake). Almost completely unrelated story simply stapled on the side (any random pic of Palutena would go with this). Story contains no actual elements of hypnosis (it's after the fact, not even specific about what method had been used, and nothing about her speech even seems hypnotized; it's a case of Tell and not Show). Story element is very low quality by itself (less effort might have been spent on the writing than the pic manip. ".

My problem with that is simple : no matter what its flaws may be, this picture still depicts a hypnosis theme, and the manipulation is smooth enough. It respects the rules of this hub. *there is nothing to moderate here.* And that's the same for many other flags.

The person who made the flag might have wished for something else. He can be only interested in well manipped pictures with a story more focused on the actual trancing process. Nothing wrong with that. But the manip mentioned before, and many, many manips I've seen around don't violate any rule, and the quality is on par with most of the manips of the hub.This was subjectively flagged, when objectivity should be the rule. Or in other words, you may not like it, but it doesn't mean it's bad - simply not what you want. That's what the tags are here for, along with the scores and the search bar.

What I'm asking is for people to tone it down on the moderation flag, and keep it for pictures that are violating the rules or which are clearly too low-quality. And even for that second point, the limit between acceptable pictures and too low quality can be blurry, so if you're unsure, maybe rather than a moderation flag, make a comment to suggest ideas and where to make effort. We are a community bound by the same interests (perversions ? ;) ). Let's help others and newcomers rather than shoot them down because they didn't do it perfectly the first time.

THIS ALL BEING SAID : I have made my point, but as mentioned in the beginning, maybe the rules and expectations of pictures have changed. I'd like to hear your opinions on it.


I'm with everybody else on this thread! This has to stop! The flagger makes it pretty clear their personal biases (So sorry I didn't right a two thousand word story I could have sent in to EMCSA and Icontrol didn't use your beloved spiral eyes! (even though I love spiral eyes myself)). Mods, how could you allow a clear and flaggerant showing of personal bias to be considered a legit flag! (Not that I've really got a leg to stand on...)

I worked hard to come up with that text, and icontrol enjoyed it too! It's not our fault if it didn't meet your expectations, but that doesn't give you the right to flag us just because it doesn't suit your personal tastes in captioned manips!!!!

...Sorry about the personal angry rant in a thread about a very important and true issue, I just really needed to get that off my chest after making this sudden, from my perspective, discovery. So, I'll end it on something silly:

Yo dog, I heard you liked moderation, so I moderated the moderation of the moderators!
TamamoHusbando
11/10/18 06:07AM
The simple fact is that the flagger or flaggers in question is gatekeeping based on their tastes, preferences, and interpretation of the rules. The reaction I've seen from the post moderators has been lackluster towards a clear abuse of the flagging system. And it's likely the same person or two doing it.

The site has it set so that those who flag aren't seen, and for good reason. But the mods and admins should be able to see who it is by their IP address. I'd like at least confirmation on my assumption that it's the same person or handful of people, and something done about their gatekeeping, because that's exactly what this is.

Outside of that, I just want admins to actually consistently enforce the criteria and rules for uploading, as well as in moderation of the comment section. Preference towards certain users, or moderators being allowed more leeway in what is not permissible behavior, has occurred in the past. It's one thing if said behavior is infrequent and relatively minor and the people involved apologize, but this hasn't always been the case.

Granted, this last case isn't widespread, but I'd just like the moderators to nip it in the bud when it shows up.
Anno1404
11/10/18 06:31AM
I agree with this....since the visibility of the flagger's names many montgs ago we have a increasing amount of troll flags.
...but also thinking back about the manip discussions some weeks ago...has somebody ever considered that it could even be a mod flagging the 'unwanted' manip with an alternate account and then delete it with their mod account?
Imasuky
11/10/18 06:33AM
Anno1404 said:
I agree with this....since the visibility of the flagger's names many montgs ago we have a increasing amount of troll flags.
...but also thinking back about the manip discussions some weeks ago...has somebody ever considered that it could even be a mod flagging the 'unwanted' manip with an alternate account and then delete it with their mod account?


If any of us did that it would be easy for the rest of the team to know so don't say something that could start even more drama.

We know everyone who flags things and regardless of what their reasoning is it comes down to our personal judgement.
Changer
11/10/18 07:06AM
Yeah, that's kind of a weird theory. The QCC makes decisions as a group, so even if a mod was flagging things to bring them up to the QCC, they would still need to discuss it with the other QCC members and convince them it violates the rules or quality standards in order to have it deleted. They wouldn't be able to just solo delete things soley on their own taste.
Icontrol
11/10/18 08:48AM
ghost13 said:
(even though I love spiral eyes myself)).


I love spiral eyes myself as well. That's why most of my manips were spiral eyes. It was until someone, I believe it was LillyTank, that mention I use spiral eyes too much and the user preferred my empty/heart eyes manip. So, I decided to dwell back into those as well as glowing eyes to have a variety of manips.

Imasuky said:
We know everyone who flags things and regardless of what their reasoning is it comes down to our personal judgement.


Then let me ask this. I know I'm late on this, but why was this deleted?
hypnohub.net/post/show/67321
I added text to the image to give context, but that wasn't enough and it got wiped. Whereas my other remaining text manips are safe.

Also, has there been an official announcement regarding the text wall manips? If not, why delete this?
hypnohub.net/post/show/67748
I searched the other text wall manips that were flagged and they're still up. What makes mine the exception?

And more thing, I noticed that during the great purge, a mod also deleted IDPet's manip of my manip for 'low effort' even though that wasn't the case. It seems to me that the mod just deleted anything that had my tag, that wasn't a gif or text, without a second thought. (Funny enough, my Chifuyu gif got flagged for the same thing, but the flag was removed.) Luckily for him, it got restored.

Look, all I'm saying is that I want consistency around the hub.
TamamoHusbando
11/10/18 08:59AM
An idea I just had a moment ago: what if the moderation team picked out representatives from the regular commenters and users on the site to discuss things? People who showed discipline when dealing with others during confrontations, or who were effective as mediators. Maybe that might alleviate some of the issues that are occurring, because I think part of the problem is that most of us have no clue exactly what is going on with discussions regarding quality control among the mods.

I don't intend on stepping up to fill such a position, but there has to be some regulars that the mods can trust who can act as intermediaries, because I think a good chunk of user frustration regarding flags and quality control is that they honestly don't know what the mods are thinking of or how exactly they judge flagged images. Being in the dark like this doesn't help this current issue. If that doesn't work, then the only other resolution I can find is that the mods in charge of quality control work to be more transparent and open on what exactly they're looking for and HOW they judge. The problem with that is this might lead to harassment directed at specific mods if some users don't like their reasoning, and I'd like to avoid that.
IDPet
11/10/18 05:22PM
Seriously, dafuq with that flag. Sometimes looks like someone hates Icontrol for some reason.
Changer
11/10/18 07:17PM
Well, I mean, the mods are basically community members who have been active in the community for a while and whom the other mods feel is trustworthy enough not to abuse mod powers. So "taking a representative from the community" to mediate between mods and users would basically just be adding like more mods but without mod powers?
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