Now this thread isn't meant to explain the lore of every fantasy story or argue which genre is better. I just want to brainstorm with everyone and see what you all think.

So I started playing Final Fantasy 8 recently. It's super fun and I'm having a blast, but there's one thing I couldn't help but notice. The people in this world are capable of creating advanced robots and machinery, wielding firearms, launching missiles, and venture out into space. Yet a majority of the characters (main characters and enemies) rely on swords, whips, nun-chucks and other martial weapons in combat while only a few use guns.

Now I know this is a fantasy game, and martial weapons are useful in real life combat, but I was wondering why someone would use a sword when they could use a gun. More importantly, if they are capable of creating guns and advanced machinery why not make it available to everyone in your army? All of this got me thinking about sci-fi elements in fantasy stories; when fantasy worlds are capable of technological advancements how do they balance the fantastical and the technological?

So I have 3 ways to explain the technological restraints in fantasy world:

Theory 1: Money

It may not be the coolest reason, but money is very important to society, whether magical or fantastical. No money means you can't pay workers, and no workers means no new innovations. People don't work for free, and they can't create new things if they don't have the money to pay for resources or education.

The world of League of Legends is mostly a fantasy world with mages, knights, and magical creatures. But the city of Piltover has many technological marvels (called hextech) that makes them look centuries ahead of the other kingdoms. This is because Piltover is a major port city where ships all over the continent pass through, bringing in new ideas and plenty of money. This has allowed Piltover to be branded as "The City of Progress," as they are filled with inventors and bankers who are able to secure money or resources for their endeavors.

It could cost a lot of money for a society to pay for the manufacture of firearms or advanced machinery, especially if the government lacks proper foundation for a treasury. Maybe your fantasy world is ruled by a greedy monarch who only cares about indulging themselves and ignores more important issues, or maybe your world is constantly attacked by terrifying monsters and all the money is spent on fixing the damage. Whatever the case, if an army can't be outfitted with the best weapons available, it might be because they can't afford them.

Theory 2: Resources:

A fantasy world can be filled with wonders that we can only dream of. Floating islands, enchanted forests, and powerful runes are the norm. But what if resources common to our world are extremely rare in your fantasy world. Maybe the reason firearms and robots aren't more common in your fantasy world is because the resources required to make them are too hard to find.

Let's use guns as an example, specifically gunpowder. Gunpowder is made from a mixture of sulfur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate (nitre aka saltpeter). If you don't have enough of one of those resources then you can't fully utilize the powder's capabilities. This would mean that firearms and explosives won't be as common, which would force your characters to make use of other weapons. Perhaps your fantasy world uses different resources for firearms like magic or other minerals. Nevertheless, If the necessary resources required for technology aren't readily available then it would explain why it's not a greater part of the world.

Theory 3: Time

Much like in real history, martial weapons such as swords and spears were still used when firearms began to spread around the world. It's understandable that people would rely on the weapons they've used for centuries instead of switching to new ones.

Perhaps in your fantasy world technological innovations are just starting to gain traction, like an "out with the old, in with the new" scenario. You could have a gun slinging character alongside your fantasy party because they've embraced the new technological movement where others are skeptical.

That's all I've got. What do you all think?

"Why don't they just call the police?"

Let's not bring political jokes into this.

I didn't read the whole opening but i just wanted to say that sci fi has been in final fantasy since the very first game.

Of course. I'm just trying to apply some logic to using swords and magic in a world where you have guns and bombs and automobiles.

The FF games with a majority magic world the level of technology has usually been low with the pinnacle of technology being the airship, but for FF 7 & 8 their worlds are very modern and contain advanced technology. Why would our heroes use swords when their enemies use more advanced weaponry such as firearms and machine/robots?

Tradition and politics would be another reason, Japan its an example of technological progress halted down thanks to politics.
They were living in a medieval society in the 16-17 century.
Maybe it has always been a nation of swordsman and they don´t want to change
Maybe the local lord doesn´t want to lose control of the population and stop giving out weapons
maybe some religion its involved

Interesting. I didn't know that about Japan, but I'm not surprised.That is a good idea having it be a cultural/traditional aspect.

I think a big part of it is integration of magic/materia/etc. into the weapon, and how much more effort would have to go into an enchanted gun over an enchanted blade.

Let's use RWBY as an example. If you wanted to give a rifle some kind of elemental effect, you'd need to have a particular kind of elemental dust incorporated into every single bullet. That would be a problem for all three of the reasons you listed; You'd spend a fortune on ammo, probably have to stop to make it by hand so it can fit in your ridiculously over-customized weapon, and there's no guarantee that any given vendor even has your variant in stock.

On the other hand, if you wanted the same elemental power on a sword or a hammer or something, that's a lot more manageable. You just get one decent sized chunk of dust crystal, stick it somewhere inside of your weapon, and you're done. Even with daily use, you could go over a month without needing a refill.

Final fantasy 10 could be another example with fantasy and scifi mixed together in the since that Zanarkand was a technologically sound city until it went to war with Bevelle and ultimately was destroyed and when Sin came Sin kind of sort of acted as population control for all of spira.
And as Motorata said, technology is kept in check by the church of Yevon [ Praise be to Yevon ]
and from what i remember you only start seeing guns and robots and tanks and stuff when you start to fight the church.

Before all that its pretty much swords monsters and magic till that point.

A setting may be post apocalyptic, with modern tech slowly being usurped by older but easier to manage weapons and designs. Harry Turtledove has a book in his Crosstime Traffic series, that deals with a world after the Cuban Missile Crisis goes hot, there at a 17th century level of tech 80 years after the bombs fell, but some old world weapons (An M2 Machine-gun, bolt action rifles) still remain, if in a state of disrepair.

The '90s FPS game Strife deals with a similar world, an "after the end" scenario with humanity reverting to an early tech level, but with some future tech remaining.

In a magic + Technology world, i would think in some regard, things would be slower due to academic focus being more on Magic, but not everyone can use magic can they? The first person who realizes an Arquebus gives a common man, the same level of power of a newly minted mage, will become very rich. Its the same reason older weapons like Bows or suits of armor went out of style, weaponry advanced to make them no longer tactically sound.

In Goblin Slayer it's suggested that science can't advance or propagate as well as in our world due to constant threats such as goblins making travel between settlements that much more dangerous, so ideas and discoveries tend to stay quite regional. Since it's a pretty bog standard D&D world, I reckon you could chalk that up for a fair few others too.

And to approach the topic from the opposite end, there's swords and stuff in a sci-fi setting like 40K in part due to many enemies getting all up in your personal space, and because certain things have natural armor against piercing or laz weapons, but not necessarily against slashing (and certainly not grinding with the good old chainsword). Haven't read it, but apparently Dune also has some kind of personal shield thingy that stops bullets but not a sharp stick, and Legend of Galactic Heroes has the 'zephyr particles' or whatever they're called that go boom if anyone's dumb enough to shoot a gun with them around.

Returning to fantasy, there's also settings like Arcanum where magic and mechanical things interfere with one another, so you pretty much need to pick one or the other (and can sabotage one with the other).

Then there's the Trails series, where technology is only just emerging in a recently medieval world (and ironically so is magic 'cause it's also tech-based). Plus, orbal-powered guns aren't nearly as powerful as gunpowder weapons, but that world went all in on orbal R&D because it can be applied to almost anything.

Outside of pop culture, bear in mind that it took several centuries in our world to get to the point gunpowder completely overtook traditional weapons. Not only did early guns have pitiful range and accuracy, they were susceptible to weather conditions and took a good while to reload. Their greatest benefits were the armor penetration and how easy it was to train a soldier to shoot a gun compared to a bow (actually crossbow, since that replaced the bow for the same reasons). As for tanks and the like, those require industrialization, which is absolutely not a cheap thing considering the multitude of inventions it takes, and adding to that the many flaws in early tanks as field weapons, I reckon not many nations would want to commit to it too much before they know the investment can pay off (as defense weapons you just need the cannons after all). Furthermore, if a fantasy world only has the one stereotypical 'science city', not only will their production and advancement be severely hampered by their manpower, but also the lack of competition. And the further you go from this one location with all the technology, the harder it will be to procure spare parts, refined fuel and ammunition for your tech, so a technologically advanced army far from home would be a logistics nightmare and child's play to defeat, barring hilariously overpowered tech like airplanes or spaceships versus bow & arrow, or a politically advantageous situation like the Spanish conquest of Mexico.
And lastly, consider how most of this world's martial progress took place in Europe, which was practically the hotbed for military advances due to being comprised of relatively small states in a near-constant war with someone, but not to the point of always fighting for their existences. If a fantasy world lacks that particular environment, who knows how long it could take to get to the point it'd be pragmatic to switch to primarily firearms.

All that said it'd be absolutely ludicrous if you had a mostly fantasy world with soldiers using fully automatic weapons (looking at you, FF7, 8, etc.), and still have a group of dweebs running around with swords or the like being more than target practice for the regular military.

I misinterpreted the meaning of this forum when I first read the title, and I just want to say: Star Wars. That is all.

But to add to this discussion, let's actually look at FFVII for a sec. Look at the members of SOLDIER we see across the FFVII series, namely Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth, and Roche. Even when all of his foot soldiers are using guns, guys like Roche still use a sword. It's just how SOLDIERs are trained. Plus, they probably aren't such great marksmen. Same goes for Sephy and the Buster Boys. Now, Barrett DOES use a gun. Quite the big one, in fact. Tifa's always been a rough-and-tumble kinda girl, so being all about the fists makes sense for her. Vincent does use a gun. Yuffie's a ninja, and the 2014 Foot Clan are the only ones I could ever see as "ninjas" using guns. Cait Sith is a straight-up robot. Cid's an old-fashioned guy, and even then he has a cool airship. Aerith is supposed to be simpler and "connected with the planet" and all that. And I don't think a quadruped can use a gun very effectively.

That's what I usually think for fantasy worlds. They don't get the chance to develop new technology because dragons or evil sorcerers cause so much destruction. They spend their all their time and resources rebuilding.



This is an interesting dynamic. I like the idea of Fantasy vs Sci-fi, and having technological/magical restraints forcing people to choose sides sounds awesome.



Now this is interesting. It makes sense that advanced weaponry would be a huge risk for societies that mostly relied on swords and armor for battle. The money it would take to fund the production and manpower would definitely cause problems. And I like the historical info. It makes sense for Europe to advance faster than the rest of the world since they were constantly warring and seeking funds for new campaigns.



I agree. It's hard to gauge how technology advanced in these worlds when some characters use swords to fight giant robots and soldiers with machine guns.

For FF7 it's clear the machine guns Shinra uses don't fire at the same rate a real machine gun does. The rate of fire is slow and the accuracy is awful. Perhaps Shinra's forces are more for overwhelming their enemies with a sea of bullets rather than training each soldier to carefully aim their shots.

For FF8 I think the guns are more for special purposes. Not all soldiers use guns, such as the Galbadian forces. The footsoldiers use swords, while the elite soldiers use some kind of gauntlet gun. When Squall was escaping from the giant robot in Dollet Quitstis only used the boat's machine gun at the last minute. And of course there's Irvine, who's firearms training is of great importance to Squall's team. Perhaps firearms are used for certain situations and reserved for characters with special training.

Now this is an interesting idea! Keeping people dependent on magic so they don't create technology and improve their lives. And of course if magic is only accessed by certain individuals then they would probably do whatever they could to stay in power.

In the PS1's Xenogears, they had 40 ft. mecha.
The "Gears" and all other technology in this otherwise medieval world were a product of a vanished civilization. Gears revolutionized warfare. Now, instead of armies, battles were decided by clashes between a handful of Gears from each side. This has set off an archeological arms race between rival countries.