It would be pushing an agenda of... what? Someone trans existing in media you consume? I am not going to assume that Fic's position is this. Because everyone knows what assuming does. But if that is legitimately their position, that the only reason they are fighting this is because they perceive a character not being cishet then there really is no reason to have a conversation. People like that are not really worth the headache. Again, not saying Fic has that position. Not accusing you of that position either.

Seeing as how I was the original anon who started this (I posted the first reply to the bridget image) I feel partly responsible for all this animosity. Although I have my beliefs, I see this as more of a tagging issue than anything. No one is going to be fully satisfied until we get proper tags and I would have been fully content with tagging the Bridget image as a transgender girl. Unfortunately such tags do not exist and the only trans tag is not being used in the right context (I mean yeah it's gender transformation but I think that should just fall into the transformation tag when it could be used for situations like this). The issue I had was scrolling through femsub (Always been vaginas and boobs since I've been on this site) and seeing a dick and no boobs or vagina lmao. That's literally all it was. And look I get how that could sound insensitive, but I have my beliefs and I didn't want to see that, so I made a post and took the tag off. And now it's led to this. Ugh...

Anyways, quick solution: Just make a transgender_boy and trasngender_girl tag. That simple, fixes this whole issue.

It is a porn site. Far be it from me to get upset at someone wanting tags to be updated for this. I agree. Other people, however, don't seem to think added two simple tags is that great a plan. I dunno. As I said before, this probably should have just been a tag discussion rather than one that would inevitably have gotten so heated.

What's this, a controversial discussion without my input? Let's fix that, shall we?

Okay, so to this day I don't know what a Guilty Gear is, nor do I particularly care to, but one of the very first 'anime facts' I ever learned was that the cute nun has a winky.

It sounds like dealing with the expectations and prejudices of others is a big part of Bridget's story thus far, and overcoming them has been a factor in his choice to ply a masculine trade in the first place. Now, maybe it's just me, but him being a her sounds like a massive slap in the face of real life transgenders who also put in effort in order to be accepted as the thing they see themselves as. After all, in Bridget's case, her parents were right all along, and she just had to accept who they raised her as. 2+2=5. Not exactly a great message if the author intended to appeal to people struggling with their gender identity. If you ask me, it really isn't that much better than Buffalo Bill, arguably worse given the role self-expression is supposed to have in the community.

Now, as for the tags discussion. If it's 'tag what you see' for everything else, why not this? If it revs your engine, you're free to imagine any character identifying as Apache helicopters for all I care. Plus, I'm pretty sure the site already has tags for common "symptoms" and "causes" like crossdressing, altered perception and gender bender, and probably more, so I'm really not sure what a 'transgender' tag would bring other than confusion and opportunities for tag wars.
Further, there'd be the issue of what exactly qualifies to consider. It's arguable enough if being trans is the same as having gender dysphoria, given the latter can be the outcome of nurture (see David Reimer), but at least some insist you're born the former. And is one tag enough, or should there be something like 'forced_trans' and 'native_trans' to distinguish between hypnotically induced and naturally occurring transgenders?

There it is everyone. Thread can be ejected into the sun. We have achieved the only joke. The one transphobic joke. There's no topping that.

Okay, you're going to have to explain to someone who's native language has no word for 'gender' and only one gender neutral pronoun how 'choose whatever you want, it really doesn't matter to me' is a sign of (irrational) fear.

If that had been exactly what you said, there'd be no problem. The problem is the addition of the attack helicopter "joke". I should not even be bothering you explain this to you. Any pretense of good faith in this conversation is no longer there really when "jokes" like that are introduced.

Please do bother, I'm honestly stumped as to what is so damn offensive about that one.

The reason the joke is transphobic is because the joke boils down to "people identify as trans, so I will identify as something equally absurd." The joke exists for no purpose other than to make fun of trans people, and to imply that they are delusional.

Thank you.

This is why tag what you see is the way to do it...

oh I missed a lot sleeping! Reading what I missed had me a little worried at first but I'm glad everyone stayed calm



I could ask my friends but I don't know if I'd explain it well! I don't think I'm very good with the big picture stuff, I just get them being afraid that the stories they love are suffering in quality. I'm not even sure there's one specific agenda with how they talk about it.

I do think that we at the very least can agree that maybe this isn't as clear with Bridget as... Poison, from street fighter. She normally gets tagged as futa or female when appropriate and no one minds there. :)



Also yeah different languages have different amounts of gender specificity. A poster on danbooru pointed out that Japanese has gender neutral articles that are used both formally and informally that don't translate smoothly to English.

Edit: I came back to read this and realize I should clarify- this is just an example of language differences. Not specific to kinkyfinn's case! We could also look at how Spanish and French apply gender even to objects, I think.

I don't really think I would classify last night as calm. I mean, it ended with "attack helicopter lol."



Lumping a bunch of people together and saying they are all the same and awful is itself awful, but I just feel like I have seen this way too often. The gamer bro who is so invested in a game that a character being LGBT or any other minority is just going to ruin the whole experience of the game. Hell, there are individuals out there on the internet who would be moved to rage tears if the main character in their favorite games was a woman instead of a man. Bleh. That whole culture can be extremely toxic.

It looked like it was gonna get heated for a sec but it didn't and that's the relief!

Anyway, I did poke one friend who's usually good at explaining and we talked over lunch- had to dance around why I was asking because he doesn't reallly... get kink stuff but he picked up that it was about Bridget (which is weird because he doesn't like fighting games!)

paraphrasing while it's fresh in my mind: He thinks that these kinds of things are done without caring about the characters or the stories they inhabit, and that the changes are used as a front for other, worse changes that end up killing the media and that a lot of the frustration comes from watching it happen again and again. The other thing he mentioned was he felt like other stories would add in a trans/enby character to cynically cash in. It skirted around politics a lot.

I think it's important to look at which examples of transgender and nonbinary people that people get frustrated about. I really liked Celeste and no one ever seemed upset about the trans undertones aside from people who seemed like they were just trying to stir the pot. That information also came directly from the creator so there was no confusion. I already mentioned Poison too, and she was a case that took a long time to settle.

So he instantly knew the character despite not playing fighting games. Okay... so... riddle me this: what specific character was introduced to be trans/enby that was a front for worse changes that literally *killed* the media. I actually want to know. Also it is fascinating to me that the mere inclusion of few trans/enby characters equates to a cynical cash in while cishet male characters, which number in the multitudes, are just fine and dandy.