i dunno why, but i always seem to have a low tolerance to "bad guys win" scenarios, Is that a bad thing?

Not IMO, so long as you don't start judging everyone else by stringent principles. You shouldn't be put down just because something rubs your conscience the wrong way. We're all here on this site to enjoy ourselves, not to have to conform to prevailing standards.

Hell, I've got an odd moral streak myself, but it's aimed more at <<tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EsotericHappyEnding|esoteric happy endings>> rather than unabashed bad guys winning :P .

I think it is better to be bothered by something than pretend its exceptional just because it is a work of fiction.

I always like bad guys, their attitude, their twisted system of values, their motivations and style. They are the true stars of most stories, and the protagonist is often just who "needs to stop them". So, I end up liking them enough that in several cases I cheer for them. I don't always want a bad guys win scenario, but I like bittersweet endings where they at least manage to do something before losing, and the good guys suffer the consequences.

Now in hypnoporn the "bad ending" is actually pretty common, because it's often the sexiest too. Stories like Sub Routine, Weapon Ready, Xenophilia, Hot Oil, Adaptation, Fruition all have a deliciously sexy bad end. The struggle of the protagonists just makes their defeat even hotter. So I like those even more.

Now for general context... if your sense of justice is strong enough to make you angry at those actions, there's nothing bad. Except you're reacting to the story without considering that with no villain, the good guys would be sitting in a park and holding hands and there would be no story at all. Even when the story is involving and the villain is HORRIBLE and they get what they deserve in the end, I find myself appreciating their characters and their death.

Nothing wrong with it. Just remember you're not going to like everything on the site and that's fine. I mean if the hub only showed stuff I liked it'd be much smaller and not have much of a community!

In my case I prefer the lighter "fluffier" hypnosis and good ends. That being said I do love a well written villain and seeing them win can be a lot of fun. (Warning opinions coming up) What bothers me is that a lot of hypno villains aren't partially well written. Their entire personality tends to be "mhaha. I have hypnotized you gloat gloat gloat" which is just kinda irritating more then anything.

Or the other thing is we're suddenly supposed to root for the bad guy because an even more evil hypno villain has been introduced . This is mostly in games I've noticed which makes sense. You need some conflict. It can work. The Lilith device does it well mostly because it doesn't suddenly start pretending the MC is anything other then another baddie

There's nothing wrong with not liking the 'bad guys win'. Everyone has their own personal preferences. For better or worse, however, hypno-porn is filled with that particular trope, due to its very nature. After all hypnosis, even in the mainstream is about an individual making another do or act contrary to their original nature. In the vanilla world that might be to suppress the urge to smoke, instil coping mechanisms, or bring forward memories they've suppressed, for example.

We push that concept to the extreme, and the various fictions that come from that focus on the journey of that control (like trilby else's Goddess stories, or Tabico's Sub Routine) with the conclusion being the successful subjugation of the subjects - ie the bad guys win

Then you have the stories where the bad guys have already won, where the story explores the workings of a hypnotised slave's mind, like Tabico's Community and Neighbourhood Watch.

Coming at this whole fetish subgenre as a sub of a more traditional BDSM dom/sub partnership, I can really understand the enjoyment that can be derived from that losing/loss of control. As a sub I give my body to my dom to do will as she wills, and many in the scene will play consensual non-con games.

I can appreciate, however, that when the bad guy is always winning it can get tedious. I'd like to see trilby else's hypnotist Joss get her comeuppance (if that's already been written, please point me to the story). However, even in mainstream tv/film /etc I am frequently drawn to those stories where the heroes believe they've won, only to find out in the stinger there was another nest or a lone bad guy survivor, or the infection vector has changed (like the rat at the end of the Film Species)

I tend to prefer stories where things end up okay for the sub, is what i like to see. Bad ends are fine as long as they aren't grimdark. Vore is the only kind of snuff i'll handle, and that doesn't end up in written stories as much anyway.

I don't like golden endings, where the protagonist gets free and everything is alright. If they don't end up a slave, they should at least be profoundly changed, mentally or physically, by their struggle.

Well. The side topic of 'the bad guys win' trope is getting discussed. My 2 cents:

First off, I think the trope has more to do with the culture we live in. Typically, villains are the manipulators and mind controllers. You very rarely have one who uses their abilities positively ( Charles Xavier maybe? ). And then compound that with the fact that sex is somewhat dirty to begin with (and considered a sin in WASP/U.S. culture).

As for the bad guys winning... there is a scene from FF7 that comes to mind. The second time you have a run in with Don Corneo. If Vincent is in your party he remarks on the Don's creepy rapist ways- something to the effect of "You know, it isn't that I disapprove of what you are trying to do. Just the way you are doing it."

Basically, I like a good proper villain who isn't invulnerable. Who is effective, not stupid and that earns their 'win'. I like heroism that is doing the right thing, even if that means losing. And I like for that heroism to be worth it. And I like the moral gray areas of stories.

The stand out things about Trilby Else stories is that the hero's can win and sometimes do. Even if they end up as slaves, they can push through and occasionally do some incredibly heroic things.

Pushing it to the moral and ethical limit is less appealing to me. A serial killer can do that quite easily, ultimately there are less interesting people in the world when they are done. The same is somewhat true of mind control villains - a brainwashed sex slave is less interesting to me then the rocket scientist or even waitress she was or could be.

The gray area where people are trying to make this work in a relationship... or trying to maintain their little empires? That is interesting to me.

I also like random chance to have interesting effects in a story world... the 'so-called bad guy always wins' means that you have to ignore all sorts of things that I think would make a story more interesting and give it merit outside of eroticism. Same is true of the flip-side.

There are plenty of stories without a villain. In fact, I'd wager most fanfic is sans villain.

That doesn't mean there isn't antagonism or tension, though.

Are you saying that two cute girls holding hands and having hypno fun with each other isn't a great story?

As I said, that's for general context, not regarding hypnoporn specifically. XD Porn tends to have simpler plots that are excuses to show the sex scene, so a villain is not necessary, unless he's part of that.



Same goes here. I'm talking about original stories. Fanfiction are often about taking your favourite characters from a story and making them have romance/sex/a character developing story. And that could be mocked as "sitting in a park holding hands", though I don't want to sound rude XD
What I mean is, in fanfics the villain is not needed because the story, the problem the good guys have to face, the struggle that leads to character development... already exists in the original story. You take characters that are already affected by it and write about them.
But try taking a fanfiction and turning characters into original characters, taking out the story and setting from which they are from. You'll end up with 50 Shades of Grey.

It varies quite a bit. My general line is that if it feels like the work of fiction is a blatant mask for terrifying author opinions, then I get more wigged out. It's one thing to see highly rape-y spank material, quite another when it feels like the author has immense issues with women or men in general.

Total failures of anatomy aren't a moral line for me, but still make me think "oh god why". Liefeld should not inspire porn art, in general.