Hey Everyone,

I feel that, for a long time, we've been having off and on disputes on more than one occasion about text manips in which the image bares no sign of hypnosis or mind control.
I think that all of us enjoy a good story and a lot of us don't mind if it comes attached to an image that doesn't seem to convey any themes dealing in MC. Though, there are a lot of us who would prefer an image to speak for itself so that the story is more of a bonus and the image doesn't depend on it.
Manipping is a difficult thing depending on the level you're on but in some cases it is rather easy.
I know this isn't the biggest problem right now but it can turn into one of the greater quality issues if not addressed sooner rather than later.
I say this because a some of the latest text manips seem to have gotten a little lazy with members not even bothering to alter the font to something more suitable. I'm not saying that this the case for all manips but I feel more of them can become a problem if this isn't addressed now.

So I'll ask everyone else.
Should text suffice as the soul indicator of MC for an image on this site?
Should text manips be judged to a higher standard than they have in the past?
Does a short story truly need an image to make it better?

I'm not saying that anything needs to change right now but I think it's important to discus just in case.

Hmm. I would say there probably ought to be some quality rules for text manips...

A short story with an image can be made through HTML. It doesn't even require anything special, really. And if you intend to write a whole short story from a single image, I feel like a manip is a forced way to present that story. I think the idea of "representation" here is important, but I think that it's importance is inversely related to the quality of the writing, and manipping, of the basic image.

Connection is probably more important: how well does the image portray the story, or part of the story, being told in the text? If I saw the image without any text, would I still be able to see that story in some form or another?

To answer your questions:

I do not think that text alone should serve as the sole indicator of MC, nor do I think it should be the sole measure of determining to remove a particular image.

Text Manips should, probably, have a higher standard applied to them than they do right now -- but properly implementing such a standard means having people actually _read_ through the manips to determine the quality of the writing and the "heart" of the image.

It is said that "a picture is worth a thousand words", and I believe that the picture should tell more of a story than the text in a manip. With that said, a short story may always be improved by an image, but it's laziness to rely on an image to improve or spice up your story.

A good story should be spread across multiple images, or the manip should present several images within. For example:

hypnohub.net/post/show/11...ofication-collar-cum-cum_

This is a strong example of something I dislike, and something you may also dislike.

I dislike that a single cumshot image is the entire source of all this text -- there's nothing to support mind control or bimbofication or anything related to the story in the image except a blow-job and not swallowing all of the cum, which is a fairly _minor_ part of the story presented. Coupled with the fact that the image is so tiny compared to the text (you could put the image into the manip 3 more times and still have free space).

I don't dislike the story -- I just dislike that the story is presented as an image. I actually very much like the story, and would love if it hadn't come bundled with an image that just happened to represent one sentence near the end of the pic.

You probably dislike that, regardless of the story, there is (as I mentioned) no sign of Hypnosis or MC inside of the image.

I think we both agree that manips of this sort are things that we don't want to become over-represented on the site, though.

So in short:

I agree that images which are primarily a story should be subject to some quality controls, to make sure that the picture or pictures properly support the story.

OPINIONS HERE

Probably, whatever but probably a bad idea to put into a rule, definitely not but that's at the discretion of the person making it.

Fucking with the eyes and maybe the expression (what seems to be what manips are in a lot of cases) does nothing for me if the image itself isn't already MC and there isn't a story to go with it. If the MC implications are obvious or there is a story, I don't have a problem with the eyes doing something crazy. It's a very specific, if widespread, indicator of mind control and I don't think it's any more legitimate than text.

I say stop trying to stir up drama so much about how other people like their MC. A lot of people obviously like the MC explained in text around their images; some people don't and that's okay but it's probably better to try to coexist than fragment that off the site. I honestly don't see this being a serious problem.

EDIT: In response to the post above, try to keep in mind that this is hypnoHUB. Like, we all like it in our own way, but this is supposed to be a centralized community. There's gonna be stuff you like and stuff you don't like, but that's the way it should be in my opinion. If you see a thumbnail that's just a wall of text with a tiny image, that should be pretty easy to identify and avoid if you don't like it. I kinda like arish's stuff, personally.

It is very difficult for fiction to get noticed here. The booru format is just not well suited to walls of text, and posting your stories in the forums is way less satisfactory because way fewer people will read it, and there's no system of upvotes/favorites/etc to gauge how people who didn't actually comment reacted.

The story thread that's been getting some traffic lately is the most active writing thread we've ever had here, correct me if I'm wrong, and while it works okay and it's very cool that it's happening, the system we've got of throwing Pastebin links at each other then trying to talk while throwing more links is pretty awkward, and people tend to get at most three responses, while a popular picture or manip can reap 40-50 favorites and lengthy comment threads.

It is much easier to get a response by attaching a story to a picture, and many people write stories that were inspired by the picture in the first place. Of course it's not always an ideal method of presentation, but I think that banning manips that don't feature any actual image manipulation will alienate a ton of people and stamp out some really good content. If it is really a problem, I would suggest making a tag for pure text manips that have no manipulation of the image itself.

Okay, I'll admit I'm the biggest whore there is when it comes to likes or faves or comments but even I don't really care about the attention level here. Well, okay, I love comments more than I can say, but still. I'll post on EMCSA and Literotica when I want thousands of views rather than hundreds (my first story got like 300 something last I checked from here and /d/ alone, which isn't actually that bad.) Anyways, point is that I at least wouldn't post to the gallery for fiction attention when there are sites more than 10x bigger than us which collect and showcase fiction. If they post to the gallery I'd generally be on the side that they legitimately want the image there with the story.

I think that you bring some excellent points. I don't want to alienate any particular group who prefers writing as apposed to editing. I just want things to be more clear and for i thew quality in manipping to improve as a whole.
There are definitely other places for stories to be posted besides paste bin but I still don't want writers to be driven way from the site. I think a new tag would do nicely. However, I still want the standards for text manips to be raised. If you're just writing a story then things like font style, typesetting and layout aren't really an issue since the feature is in the words themselves but in a text manip things are different. You have the image to account for and even if you aren't going to edit that you still need to think about how your text interacts with the image in terms of appearance.

I'm not trying to condemn people for not editing the image itself. I know that this is a difficult thing to accomplish but I do want for people to learn to do more than just slap a story a random image. Even if the story is good, not everyone is going to see how it relates to the image posted.

I also like a lot of Arashi's stuff -- I just think most of it is more suited to publication as a "short story" than an "image". I'd rather have a snippet of a story illustrated by a pic than a whole story with just a single scene illustrated.

You make a good point. I've never posted any non-manip writing online, so I haven't used sites like Literotica and stuff like that. I've often chosen to generate ideas from pics rather than just write a story for those reasons, but that probably doesn't apply to people with more experience writing. Hadn't thought of it that way. (I'd actually really appreciate suggestions for good places to post fetish work! Probably better discussed in the story thread or PM though.)

And yeah, I think that wanting the picture with the story is a stronger reason than what I said before. I think that writing captions for pictures, however lengthy they might get, is a part of the culture of this pretty long-lived AnonIB-/d/-Hypnopics-Hypnochan-booru-Hub community.

Pretty much how I feel about empty eyes, honestly, but I agree that both the captions and those come from this. I don't feel like either should be discriminated against, they're both just convenient ways of doing MC on imageboards.

Most of what I've read here is completely in the realm of personal opinions and tastes, rather than rationales on policies that should apply to other people as well.

There's a strong argument for saying that this site is about images, not text, so only real honest-to-god images of MC should be allowed, by which I mean MC where someone who couldn't read the written language would still know it was MC if they saw it on another website. It doesn't make sense to have people up-size an image's dimensions and decorate the exterior with text and call it a mind control "image".

There's also a strong argument for the fact that there seems to be a lot of cases where the image inspires an idea that doesn't translate into something immediately visual. One reason might be because the idea doesn't fit correctly into the exact image and the MC is actually a moment before or after the actual picture, or because the idea doesn't seem to work in snapshot form and requires a short period of progress (i.e. a paragraph). It could also be because the control idea itself is not in a very visual form; this is not only possible, but seems pretty reasonable since the mind itself is not visible. It's a natural problem with the fetish.

So, there's strong arguments for both sides, and it's based on personal taste. Therefore I think we should go with both. People who want the images can have them on the site, and people who don't want them can have them taken off the site.

Fortunately the web site is already set up for having it both ways as described: Give all the story pictures a more specific version of the "text" tag, and people who don't like them can blacklist it. Everyone gets the version of the site that they want.

For good measure I also suggest that story pics where the original image is totally unaltered are also purged of the "manip" tag. I put it on mine just because that was convention, but I feel icky calling it a "manip" when the original image appears pixel-for-pixel and is not otherwise used.

<<www.quickmeme.com/img/9f/...d66786944b92d396ee069.jpg|hmm...>>

I think the biggest problem is just how you look at it. Let me put it very plainly: if the booru gallery had text support (like, RTF support or something), we would allow stories on it. The only difference between the text files that would be here in that case and the story manips that are here now is the image involved in the story manips.

The only reason the stories are attached to an image is because it's forced. If it wasn't on an image, it wouldn't be on the gallery.

I feel that a non-edited image with a caption added to it is, indeed, good enough to stay, so long as the story is not completely unrelated to the image. The story should be at least plausibly related to the image it's attached to. That's the sort of requirement we've been attempting to uphold and I don't see that likely to be changed any time soon.

For the record, I have suggested to the dev of the my imouto booru software that he look into adding text support to the gallery. He hasn't said a word on it, but know that, if it ever comes to be, we will be allowing stories. No doubt about that at all.

However, we could very well add a new tag for when a manip is JUST text added to an image, with the image itself being the original. A few ideas would be "story", "story_manip", and "only_caption".

As for the manip tag being removed from story manips? No can do. That tag isn't just there for searching, but it's meant to be a dead giveaway that the image that you're seeing is, in fact, not in its original form and has been edited by someone other than (or, in rare cases, by) the original artist. If that tag were not there, it would feel too similar to blatant copyright infringement. I think less artists will take issue so long as it is implied to not be the original.



There you go. My post should help fill that void. :P

Edit: Hope ya don't mind, but I just added the word "Visual" to the thread title to make it more clear as to what the topic is.

Yeah that's basically it Vanndril. A picture is something visual. I therefore think that there needs a visual confirmation of MC in the picture, even without the text.

There are ways to implement a story into a picture - I have done so in the past, but you have to put the effort into it. If you want to do a wall of text, then at least choose a fitting background and make the image inside it look MC.

I did so with my introduction to the Yui Age Regression manip (because i thought it needed a start for the people to enjoy the story). If anyone wants to take a look at it, it can be found here: hypnohub.net/post/show/10994

It was looking to me that the image I questioned was put up as a way to promote the story in the forums. And if there was some effort put into it, that is fine, but just hashing together the image like that - I don't think it is fair to the other artists that sometimes go a long way and put their hearth into it to make it work as an Image.

Personally, I looked at the image that spurred this conversation, and I thought the story fit the image fine. I'm not exactly sure what you had a problem with, HME. You keep saying the story doesn't match the image, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

Is the problem you have less that the story doesn't match the image and more that it was an "advertisement" to the rest of the story? I could see why that could be taken as a bit annoying, but I hardly see that as a big problem. After all, the uploader said it themselves, it's a sort of multimedia experiment.

As a final thought...



Why is that even a problem? It effects these other artists in no way whatsoever. It seems almost like a case of "I did it better, so why should people even like yours". Why should any artist care how any other artist tends to put forth work in comparison to the former artist's work?

The only people who should really care are the viewers, and they really only have a reason to care as viewers. It effects no one to a greater extent than that they can and are/have view(ed) it.

I'll reiterate my stance on this: The story should be at least plausibly related to the image it's attached to.

Maybe one day, if the booru gets text support in the galleries, we'll have stricter standards. Until then, I don't see that happening.

I can only speak for my self but for me it's an admittedly personal matter. When I come to an MC image board and see the thumbnail for an MC image I expect it to be an MC image.

I know that people like to use other pictures to set the tone or paint a picture for their short story but that doesn't seem all to appropriate for an image board. I know that's only my personal view but it still bothers me. It's not as if writers can't set tones and paint images with their words, after all, y'know?

I do like a lot of 'text-only' manips but thinking back, they didn't really need the picture and probably would have worked a lot better without it. It's all just my issue on the matter. I just question if 'text-only' manips really need to exist. Being inspired by an image doesn't really mean that you have to slap a story to it without even editing your font to make it more appealing to the reader. Some of them are just lazy and might have worked better if the authors had put more time into making their work sufficient without the image.

Still, I understand your stance. Hopefully this site will one day be upgraded with text-support. Until then a new tag or two should slake any disputers.